Oculus Rift

Soldato
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LOL I am not the one trolling. Your opinions, which you are stating as facts, are in the minority. If you go on any of the VR forums you will see that majority of people love their headsets. Played Payday 2 and Star Trek Bridge crew last night with 4 other OCuk members and you know what? Not once did I hear anybody complain about the resolution. We were much too busy enjoying the games, shooting, stealing and trying to ram the Enterprise into a Borg cube. I have owned the Rift since launch, it's been the best money that I ever spent on my PC.

If you know to setup games correctly, why didn't you turn off dynamic resolution in Skyrim VR? If you couldn't even do that simple step after doing lots of research, how can we believe that you have your headset setup any way correctly? You say VR is only for cockpit games, when it plainly isn't. The best looking, best playing and most popular games aren't cockpit games.

Once more getting back to your "waving your hands in the air like an idiot" comment. VR is Virtual reality, it's not really there, no matter how good the visuals get, you are still putting a headset on, you will still have to wave your hands to swing a sword, make a spell, reach for item on the ground etc. Maybe they might have gloves that make it feel like you are holding something in future, but, from the outside, you are still going to be waving your hands around like an idiot.

Why would you buy a headset? You say you tried it in your friends house and didn't like it. What were you thinking was going to happen when you bought your own?
That’s misleading because the majority loving them on a forum doesn’t mean the majority love the headsets. A very large amount of people if not the majority have brought VR headsets out of curiosity and never or rarely use them. The people on the forums are the minority.

Sales have not only been low but ongoing sales have plummeted and owners use of the headsets have plummeted. That’s why some of the big VR development studies have shut down as the market is smaller than expected and games sales are not coming in. Now there are some gems in there like Star Trek and Elite but the headsets are still not good enough and there are still not enough good games.

I would have said the most popular games are the cockpit style games like Elite and Star Trek Bridge crew. The games that tend to work best in VR are the ones where the player does not move there legs but sits or stands without moving.
 
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Soldato
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That’s misleading because the majority loving them on a forum doesn’t mean the majority love the headsets. A very large amount of people if not the majority have brought VR headsets out of curiosity and never or rarely use them. The people on the forums are the minority.

Sales have not only been low but ongoing sales have plummeted and owners use of the headsets have plummeted. That’s why some of the big VR development studies have shut down as the market is smaller than expected and games sales are not coming in.

Do you have a source for these user stats, or is it a convenient assumption?

I'd argue that the people in your first statement are those (like Andy) that have gone into it with false expectations, expecting to have the exact same pin sharp graphics they get on their monitor and then not being able to get over their disappointment.
They perhaps read all the gushing opinions of those that are loving the experience and have accepted the limitations and got on with enjoying themselves, without reading about stuff like the relatively low res/SDE and preparing themselves accordingly.

Then there are those that haven't experienced or can't appreciate the massive improvement VR brings to the social gaming experience. This can't be overstated and is why I started the VR group.

Now there are some gems in there like Star Trek and Elite but the headsets are still not good enough and there are still not enough good games.

Not good enough for some, perhaps. Again, that's your loss.
If you're the type that can only enjoy super polished AAA titles in uber sharp clarity, then sure.

I would have said the most popular games are the cockpit style games like Elite and Star Trek Bridge crew. The games that tend to work best in VR are the ones where the player does not move there legs but sits or stands without moving.

That's a matter of opinion, not fact, and this is coming from someone that originally got VR for and has spent the majority of his VR time in racing sims.
Maybe if you're susceptible to motion sickness AND if you don't give yourself time to get used to it, then full locomotion type games are a problem - at least at first.

People like me who got past that phase are loving the hell out standing first person VR games. All the other people I see playing these games online seem to agree.

Of course, VR could be and will be better. I think most of us are fully aware that it isn't perfect and that we're early adopters, so we can more easily accept the things you find to be dealbreakers.

People moaning that it isn't up their standards are perfectly within their righs to do so, and I understand where they're coming from. But when those opinions are based on very little experience with seemingly bugger all research done before taking the plunge then I don't really have much sympathy, especially when they're coming out with fantasy land stuff like this:

I am all for PC VR but it needs to improve massively before it will ever truly take off. We would need 8k screens with at least 180 field of view horizontally and 50 degrees vertically that runs at 140hz on OLED screens. This would need to small and lite like putting on a pair goggles and would have to do all this wireless. And still be relatively low cost to the consumer.

8K @140hz, wireless and tiny. Oh, and low cost.
Yeah, good luck with that. I'll see you in 10 years perhaps.
 
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8K @140hz, wireless and tiny. Oh, and low cost.
Yeah, good luck with that. I'll see you in 10 years perhaps.

Yep exactly my point. I said in a previous post that it will be 10 years or more before the technology is good enough an cheep enough for it to actually take off. I'm glad we can agree on something.....
 
Soldato
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lol :D
Depends on what you define as taking off. Are we talking being as widespread as screen based gaming, or some kind of Ready Player One type of thing where pretty much everyone is doing it?
I'd say VR has already taken off, it's just not exactly what you want it to be at the moment, although I'd still say that your opinion is based on very little actual experience.

The tech is good enough for people to have a great time right now. Maybe not if you're a perfectionist, glass half empty kind of person.
 
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Soldato
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That comic is so apt.

To be honest I would like a wireless Rift, with better lenses and a higher resolution; but that's mainly because I got an Oculus go which is wireless, has better lenses and higher resolution :rolleyes: (but which of course is far less capable for gaming than the Rift).

Despite the limitations I'm enjoying gaming on the Rift and playing almost daily, and I've hardly touched 'pancake' gaming since I got the Rift.

The Oculus Quest may well be the game changer for mass-market adoption, despite it being mobile power. It looks like it's got the right combination of affordability and capability.
 
Soldato
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That comic is so apt.

To be honest I would like a wireless Rift, with better lenses and a higher resolution; but that's mainly because I got an Oculus go which is wireless, has better lenses and higher resolution :rolleyes: (but which of course is far less capable for gaming than the Rift).

Despite the limitations I'm enjoying gaming on the Rift and playing almost daily, and I've hardly touched 'pancake' gaming since I got the Rift.

The Oculus Quest may well be the game changer for mass-market adoption, despite it being mobile power. It looks like it's got the right combination of affordability and capability.


Higher FOV, Better Resolution and Wireless would be great.
I think wireless won't come for ages though due to the cost. I think it'll be optional for a long while.
FOV and resolution is already here with the Pimax which I might jump to....


Honestly people who hate on VR or don't get it.. I just don't have time to convince them cos idgaf. The only issue I have is it will hold back VR if it gets a bad rap when its quite clearly god damn amazing.

Superhot VR >>> Any FPS
Firewall Zero Hour >>> any competitive online shooter
Resident Evil 7 >>>> any horror game
Robo Recall >>> any wave shooter
Beat Saber >>> any rhythm game
Skyrim VR >>>> Skyrim


Its already setting precedents. If people can't get over the resolution... then they're really in gaming more for eye candy than gaming experience.

Playing Fallout VR and crouching down and punching a radroach is sick.
 
Soldato
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That comic is so apt.

To be honest I would like a wireless Rift, with better lenses and a higher resolution; but that's mainly because I got an Oculus go which is wireless, has better lenses and higher resolution :rolleyes: (but which of course is far less capable for gaming than the Rift).

Despite the limitations I'm enjoying gaming on the Rift and playing almost daily, and I've hardly touched 'pancake' gaming since I got the Rift.

The Oculus Quest may well be the game changer for mass-market adoption, despite it being mobile power. It looks like it's got the right combination of affordability and capability.


Yeah I agree. The Witcher 3 is the first pancake game to draw me in.

Don't get me wrong. I feel like both are awesome. I really like 4k gaming but VR is just something else when done right.
 
Soldato
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Higher FOV, Better Resolution and Wireless would be great.
I think wireless won't come for ages though due to the cost. I think it'll be optional for a long while.
FOV and resolution is already here with the Pimax which I might jump to....


Honestly people who hate on VR or don't get it.. I just don't have time to convince them cos idgaf. The only issue I have is it will hold back VR if it gets a bad rap when its quite clearly god damn amazing.

Superhot VR >>> Any FPS
Firewall Zero Hour >>> any competitive online shooter
Resident Evil 7 >>>> any horror game
Robo Recall >>> any wave shooter
Beat Saber >>> any rhythm game
Skyrim VR >>>> Skyrim


Its already setting precedents. If people can't get over the resolution... then they're really in gaming more for eye candy than gaming experience.

Playing Fallout VR and crouching down and punching a radroach is sick.

Don't forget elite dangerous, assetto Corsa, dirt rally, pCARS2
 
Soldato
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“Do you have a source for these user stats, or is it a convenient assumption?”
Last time I looked at the sales figures for HTC and Rift the monthly sales had plummeted and even after all this time total sales where very low far below expected levels. To quote one VR dev studio that is now shut down “A lot of people bought headsets just to try it out. How many of those people are active? We found that in terms of our data, a lot of users weren't."

The recent steam survey shows a small reduction in VR headset this month and the total amount of users is not that healthy at 0.34% for Rift and 0.31% for HTC Vive of users. Around 600,000 VR headsets on Steam is not a feasible amount of active users to sustain large scale VR game development. If VR wants to survive it needs to improve. I am not saying VR is dead only that it’s not as healthy as it should be at this stage. We should be into the many millions of PC headsets by now not 600k active.

You keep trying to make out it’s our loss but it’s not. We are not losing anything but you might long term if things do not improve. VR reminds me of the Atari Jaguar I loved that console but most of the content was rubbish with very few high quality games which killed the platform. At the moment VR is like the Jaguar and unless things improve it will most likely go the same way as the Jaguar. The fact is people are trying VR headsets and not coming back to them because either the headset and/or games are not good enough. You might be happy but a great many people are not.

If you treat the Rift and HTC as separate consoles/platforms each has around 300k active users. A new consoles/platform with 300k active users after 2 and a half years is considered a major failure. Its hardly healthy.



“. But when those opinions are based on very little experience with seemingly bugger all research done before taking the plunge then I don't really have much sympathy, especially when they're coming out with fantasy land stuff like this:”
That is not what is happening. The opinions are not based on little experience or bugger all research. That just sounds like an excuse to write off the users that are not returning or not buying VR.
 
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Soldato
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Last time I looked at the sales figures for HTC and Rift the monthly sales had plummeted and even after all this time total sales where very low far below expected levels. To quote one VR dev studio that is now shut down “A lot of people bought headsets just to try it out. How many of those people are active? We found that in terms of our data, a lot of users weren't."

I wouldn't expect sales to be rising after the headsets have been out for two and a half years.
It wouldn't surprise me if prospective buyers are hanging on for new tech like Pimax or even a Rift/Vive sequel at this point.
There's also the issue of having a PC powerful enough to run VR well. We all know that PC gaming is a relatively niche market and that high end PC users are an even smaller segment of that.

We'll have to see what happens with stuff like foveated rendering to hopefully bring down the PC hardware cost requirement, along with higher clarity.
Don't expect that to cost peanuts though.

Also, a lot of people love jumping on new tech and then not bothering with it once the novelty's worn off. That's hardly a new phenomenon and hardly exclusive to VR.

The recent steam survey shows a small reduction in VR headset this month and the total amount of users is not that healthy at 0.34% for Rift and 0.31% for HTC Vive of users. Around 600,000 VR headsets on Steam is not a feasible amount of active users to sustain large scale VR game development. If VR wants to survive it needs to improve. I am not saying VR is dead only that it’s not as healthy as it should be at this stage. We should be into the many millions of PC headsets by now not 600k active.

Steam surveys don't always give you an accurate picture of the hardware people are running. I'm sure that I'm far from being in a minority of people that have never participated in one.

VR will improve. It's only the first gen and you can't expect it to be perfect out of the gate.

You keep trying to make out it’s our loss but it’s not. We are not losing anything but you might long term if things do not improve. VR reminds me of the Atari Jaguar I loved that console but most of the content was rubbish with very few high quality games which killed the platform. At the moment VR is like the Jaguar and unless things improve it will most likely go the same way as the Jaguar. The fact is people are trying VR headsets and not coming back to them because either the headset and/or games are not good enough. You might be happy for a great many people are not.

If you treat the Rift and HTC as separate consoles/platforms each has around 300k active users. A new consoles/platform with 300k active users after 2 and a half years is considered a major failure. Its hardly healthy.

I say it's your loss because you could be having a great time, but you're too caught up in focusing on negatives. The people that are having a good time look past that because the positives vastly outweigh the negatives for them.
Like I said, I get where you're coming from and I'm not saying you're entirely wrong. Maybe your standards are too high. Perhaps my standards - and all the others that are enjoying themselves - are too low.
It's also just your opinion that games are rubbish. Sure, the super polished AAA stuff is few and far between, but again, that brings us back to what the individual deems as 'good enough' for them.

Perhaps we accept that we're essentially early adopters of the first real iteration of consumer VR technology and it's not perfect. How could it be perfect straight off the bat? Perhaps your expectations and demands are unrealistic. Much like "8k @140hz " :D

You can say "The fact is people are trying VR headsets and not coming back to them because either the headset and/or games are not good enough. You might be happy for a great many people are not." and I could argue the exact opposite. The fact is that a great many people are happy and are going back to their headsets on a daily.
One of us - perhaps both of us are guilty of a degree of confirmation bias.

That is not what is happening. The opinions are not based on little experience or bugger all research. That just sounds like an excuse to write off the users that are not returning or not buying VR.
It very much seems to be what's happening with the person the comment was aimed at. The guy tried one first person game for 20 minutes and formed an absolute opinion because A) He got caught out by motion sickness B) His settings were poor, and C) The game is a fairly lazy VR port and needs modding for best results anyway.

You can't then go on to say stuff like "It's only suited to seated games" based on such limited experience, when you have people that have been doing the exact opposite for far longer, in many more titles.
That's single minded nonsense logic. The truth is that it can do both equally well. Whether you can is a different matter.

I never said anything about those not buying VR because of it. Those people have done their research and decided it isn't for them, which is perfectly fine and I can understand and respect that decision.

God, I really hate this multiquote extravaganza stuff...
 
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Right now, given the state of the games industry (as I see it) the majority of AAA games are just rehashed tripe anyway, a few years ago I dismissed indie games as crap, made one bloke who should be on a register, but then a friend pointed out to me that most of the games I played at the time, and still do, are in fact, indie games.. while the majority of AAA games rely on flashy graphics and a heavy marketing push, the real creativity is in the indie game scene. Does VR ‘need’ the AAA studious to thrive? Yes, eventually I believe it does, we need a AAA franchise on VR, Ubisoft, Rockstar and Bethesda have dipped there toes into the VR waters, but we are going to need more. But right now, the likes of Rec Room, Beat Sabre, Onward, Moss and Pavlov are pushing VR more than any AAA studio.
I believe that when/if Activision and EA get involved, VR will explode, the popularity of VR shooters such as Onward, Pavlov and Now War Dust shows there is demand in that genre in VR, it won’t be long until we see a CoD or Battlefield ported over to VR.
Oculus are doing a great job driving VR forward, Valve have (apparently..) 3 VR titles in the works too, also the Quest is due next year too, which I expect to be a big hit.
VR’s future is bright, and I can’t wait to see where it is in 10 years time

Edit: I would love it Oculus helped fund a VR port of an older CoD or Battlefield title, and release it on all platforms of course.
 
Soldato
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“I wouldn't expect sales to be rising after the headsets have been out for two and a half years.”
If people were getting the positive experiences you keep talking about VR should have broken into the millions of sales by 2 and a half years. PC gaming is not a relatively niche market there are 18.5 million concurrent Steam users with 125million active users. That 3x bigger than the amount of Xbox One’s have sold. Or to put it another way Steam alone has near as many active users as people watch Netflix across the world.

Which leads me to ask How so? Given the size how is Steam not giving an accurate picture? Steam is the most popular gaming platform by far, being installed on the majority of PC gamers computers. The majority of people who play VR games have steam installed. Even the ones using the Rift store would be expected to have steam installed.



“Also, a lot of people love jumping on new tech and then not bothering with it once the novelty's worn off. That's hardly a new phenomenon and hardly exclusive to VR.”
It’s far worse for VR to the point of given concern. This type of drop off has killed other platforms. The drop off suggest it is just a novelty and that people are not getting the positives out of it to keep using it. Some drop off is expected but not as high as it has been.


“VR will improve. It's only the first gen and you can't expect it to be perfect out of the gate.”
Well are well beyond 1st gen. I have been using VR headsets on and off for 20+ years. Even if you ignore the past and only start from recently many people have brought and owned 3 different generations of Rifts with the DK1, DK2 plus the Go is a newer generation of technology then the Rift and the Quest is another generation ahead of the Go, HTC is on 2nd gen. Many of the mobiles are on 2 or 3rd gen of technology. I agree there has only been 1 consumer Rift headsets but there was been plenty of 2nd and 3rd gen technology headsets. Plus this is ignoring all the old generation of headsets going back to the 90's.


“I say it's your loss because you could be having a great time, but you're too caught up in focusing on negatives. The people that are having a good time look past that because the positives vastly outweigh the negatives for them.”
Which is not true we couldn’t be having a good time as the system isn’t able to provide us the positives even if we ignored the negatives. The positives are not vastly outweighing the negatives for many people.

I am not losing out on anything, if anything I well benefit. I have been putting of Elite Dangerous and when I do play it not only will the game have been improved via patches but the headset will be better so I will get a better experience which in turn means more and better fun. I find with games delaying the experience more often then not give you a better experience and more fun.
 
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when people talk about gen 1 of VR obviously they are only talking of the post rift era..... and you cant include DK1 and DK2 in there ... the clue is in the name!.

i would say the 2nd gen of VR is starting to trickle out now, with the new pimax HMDs... however it is not so black and white... i am not sure where for instance the vive pro lies. it still uses the (imo awful) wands, still has the same lenses and FOV as the vive 1... its kind of a half way house, a gen 1.5 if you like (a bit like the ps4 pro is to the ps4 i guess).

The mining boom has undoubtedly hurt VR....... VR really needs a gtx 970 / gtx 1060 level of gpu. what percentage of steam users have that hardware?. in any other generation, without mining and with a competetive AMD snapping at NVs heels gpus at that kind of level would be around the £150 mark now, however the way things are it is about double that price to get a VR capable hmd brand new.

i think ignorance is a huge problem with VR.... some people go in with under powered hardware knowing little about VR and expect to jump in and play COD in VR for hrs on end.. and VR just does not work like that for most.
in VR you *cant* saccrifice a few fps for eye candy. ..... most people cant jump in for the 1st time and play with full locomotion in fast pace 1st person game for hrs on end......

also you cant get a feel for how VR works looking at youtube videos. The amount of people i have spoken with who have told me with "authority" that VR is just like looking at a giant cinema screen wrapped around your face, and simply wont be convinced...... until they try it themselves.

I am not going to try to speak for the masses... i only speak for myself and VR to me is the biggest evolution in videogaming since............. well ever. it is as least as transformative as the jump from the 2D sprites of outrun to the 3D models of ridge racer imo.... and to me probably more so.

is VR failing? I dont know, some say it is, and i would agree it is not strong enough to stand on its own yet, which is why oculus are helping out..... Lets look at one of the big VR naysayers however, CCP after their failure with Eve V..... but lets be blunt here..... EVE V is very "meh" imo. It has the head look missle lock on which i like and it has npcs in there which is good, but other than that, it is just like elite CQC but imo not as good...... (and elite CQC is not loved by that many!)its flight model is so simplistic and there is not much nuance in there. its all rather mindless, and, for those who didnt get it for free was bloody expensive at launch.

It pains me that 2nd generation rift is still looking like a few years out minimum.... but i do accept the reasons. I DO have the hardware to run a CV2.. but most dont and so i understand oculus and why they are focussing on more inclusive tech.

I *hope* however that it is big enough for more titles like pCARS2, elite dangerous, Hell blade, fallout 4, skyrim, Vanishing of Ethan Carter........... basically monitor based games with some time spent on a VR port - either as a DLC or separate pruchase. this seems to me more sustainable than a from the ground up game in vr.

IF VR fails however, racing games and flight sim/space games are done for me... which sucks as they are the games i enjoy most. i just cant play them on a screen any more. (i tried)
 
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The biggest hurdle for VR, is how do you show a VR game to a non VR gamer, without them actually trying it in VR?
You can’t just watch a YouTube video like a normal flat game, that just dosnt work. The only way to see VR is too actually try VR. I have shown VR games to my console gaming buddies, and they weren’t impressed, until they actually had my Rift on there heads, then they wouldn’t leave my dam house. It blew them away, to the point where all 5 of them now have, and regularly use VR (4 PSVR’s and one went as far as buying a PC and Rift)

That’s is huge obstacle that I can’t see any solution too
 
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Since we're playing the selective quote game...

Well are well beyond 1st gen. I have been using VR headsets on and off for 20+ years. Even if you ignore the past and only start from recently many people have brought and owned 3 different generations of Rifts with the DK1, DK2 plus the Go is a newer generation of technology then the Rift and the Quest is another generation ahead of the Go, HTC is on 2nd gen. Many of the mobiles are on 2 or 3rd gen of technology. I agree there has only been 1 consumer Rift headsets but there was been plenty of 2nd and 3rd gen technology headsets. Plus this is ignoring all the old generation of headsets going back to the 90's.

Come on now...

DK1/DK2 are dev kits that people could purchase. You know this.
GO is basically a jazzed up GearVR.
Quest is a jazzed up GO, and not even out yet.
The Vive Pro doesn't qualify as second gen. It just has slightly better screens and can use a bigger playspace with the slightly upgraded sensors. As bigmike syas, it's barely v1.5 if that.

Going back to the 90's? Really?

Are we really gonna descend into this kind of uber pedantry to try and win points?

Which is not true we couldn’t be having a good time as the system isn’t able to provide us the positives even if we ignored the negatives. The positives are not vastly outweighing the negatives for many people.

It isn't true that it's your loss for not being able to have a good time while other people are? Ok then...
As for it not being able to provide positives... Just LOL
 
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Ignore Pottsey as normal.

We are now seeing VR enter into a wider commercial market, such as training. The NFL has adopted it and that indicates potential market scale.

Sony shifted an estimated 2m VR headset units in the last year, hardly insignificant. Total VR Headsets shipped to consumer market in 2017-2018 were estimated at appx 4.6m units, again, hardly insignificant.

If you don't like it, move on. I love it and it's become my preferred platform for gaming.
 
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The biggest hurdle for VR, is how do you show a VR game to a non VR gamer, without them actually trying it in VR?
You can’t just watch a YouTube video like a normal flat game, that just dosnt work. The only way to see VR is too actually try VR. I have shown VR games to my console gaming buddies, and they weren’t impressed, until they actually had my Rift on there heads, then they wouldn’t leave my dam house. It blew them away, to the point where all 5 of them now have, and regularly use VR (4 PSVR’s and one went as far as buying a PC and Rift)

That’s is huge obstacle that I can’t see any solution too

Yeah, same here. All the friends I've shown it to were blown away and now want one.
The only thing stopping them is the cost of buying a good PC. If they already had that, then buying a Rift wouldn't be an issue.

As you say, people need to try it, as watching vids doesn't come close to conveying the actual experience.
 
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I don't understand why people ferl the need to enter threads about products they dislike just to let others know they dislike it, like thry epuld care then try to prove a point of their reasoning to people who clearly do like it hence an active thread.

Move along if you don't like it, don't waste your time or others preaching your b******* when and where it is not needed.
 
Soldato
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GO is basically a jazzed up GearVR.

Maybe from a hardware perspective, but from a user experience perspective Go has revolutionized low-end VR. The idea was to provide a frictionless experience, where you can just stick it on your head and you are in VR, and it does this really well. You don't even need headphones, the built-in spatial audio is very good.

Oculus have the stats to prove that unlike the Gear VR, where users tend to play with it a bit then leave it gathering dust, Go owners use the headset regularly and there is continual engagement with the device.

This bodes well for the Quest which will do the same thing for 6DOF. Grab the hand controls, put on the headset and you're in VR. No wires, no PC, no headphones needed. Do not underestimate how well this will bring VR to the masses. I'm really looking forward to it.
 
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