Well no, that's not the point at all. That is what you have decided is the point...
And yes, you are very likely to cause further imbalance to your legs if you only leg press.
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And yes, you are very likely to cause further imbalance to your legs if you only leg press.
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Fair enough. Your aim is a good one.
If by further imbalance you mean because there's already a problem to begin with, then I agree that doing a bilateral leg press certainly has the potential to make matters worse.
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There's no harmful advice here. He's not guaranteed to do himself any harm using the press. He might equally end up in all sorts of trouble through squatting, if his knee problem is as bad as he says and a registered professional consultant has instructed him NOT to.
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Fine. These discussions, as usual, end up in silly arguments.
Frankly, I'm more interested in your proposals for how exactly he is going to overcome the pain problem.
Soldato
Seeing as the entire "Get a second opinion" expression originated from not putting all your trust in your doctor (a professional consultant), why would you place such weight in the opinion of his random physio?
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I don't really want to argue about it - I'm not here to make trouble.
I'm not really placing weight on the opinion of his physio. Not as such. But the point that an exercise professional has specifically proscribed something, still has to raise some important questions. Physio might be right, might be wrong. But it cannot be ignored.
Seeing as you guys brought it up, I will update, with my thoughts.
I didn’t want to bring it, up because all I seem to be doing is infuriating people.
The squat hurts me. I understand that it is a basic functional thing that all humans can do. But I have damaged the cartilage beneath my knee cap.
The exact same injury for some one else may or may not effect them in a different way. Only I know how my knee feels when I do certain movements.
That being said, over the last 3 months I have been leg pressing I have noticed my legs are stronger and maybe, just maybe I might be able to start squatting.
But then I look at an exercise in terms of how much can be achieved. I believe that body weight squats is indeed attainable. But I think that my knee issues will be come to be a limiting factor at some point as I make progress on the squat, this would be despite how massive my quads get.
However the leg press feels difference. I don't think even if I managed to reach 250kg on the leg press that my knee problem would ever stop me from completing the lift. Which is why for ME the leg press is the better exercise.
Big pete is right that one does NOT have to squat at all. Again I did not want to bring this up because if I brought it up, you guys would have just got even more cheesed off with me.
Take a look at this article.
Regardless, my aim at the moment is to build my legs up and them maybe just maybe, after a good 6 - 12 months of work, I can test the waters again with squats.
However it may just be the case, that I may never be able to do them.
Currently my legs routine contains: leg press, split squats, lunges and step ups. The lunge is a bit tough for me, but I’m going to do body weight and build up from there.
You have to remember one thing, I am not training to be a power lifter, so power lifting movements are not necessarily of any use to me.
That not to say that if I was able to do squats I wouldnt do em and Dead lifts, but at the moment, there simply isn’t enough strength or mass in my legs to compensate for my injury.
The deadlift maybe a different kettle of fish to the squat. It just seems different, and maybe one day that is far more likely to be doable. But I need to get strong first before adding it in there.
At the end of the month, I'm going back to speak to my physio and Ill see what he has to say. I do know that the surgeon who operated on me told me to "forget about squatting ever again".
As for my upper body routine. It's a generic routine. But I am still trying to gain mass. So concentrating on one thing twice a week per body part will hopefully enable me to make gains in the fastest most consistent way.
I'm literally one week in to my new routine and I think it's going well and this is coming from some that that has been training for years (inefficiently and inconsitantly) and never made much progress.
Some of the best changes I have made to my routine is training body parts twice a week and switching to machines. Yep that's right machines! with the machine, all the variables are exactly the same, you just change the weight and go. No waiting for the bar, no problem with people asking when are you going to be finished no problem with not having a spotter, no problem with the bars being differnet width or weight from the last time.
There are people at my level who I see are still benching the same weights whilst I who have been using the mahcine have made weight increases.
Thats what it comes down to. Progress is measured by weight. Regardless whether its free weights vs machines. For me, Im looking to get somewhere first and machines are enabling me to do this.
For fairly novice level trainees, they should start on machines, make some solid progress, get some strength and then move on to free weights.
My aim is to spend the rest of this year on machines, and then if I feel I need to switch back to free weights.
But some of the biggest guys in my gym, I saw yesterday using machines, so Im not to concerned, plus I can see in my self the progress being made, so I know it works.
Honestly In about 3 months last time round I went from 40kg on the flat bench to 42.5kg! That was it. On the machines I have moved up by about 10kg already over the last 3 months and seen physiological changes in my body.
I didn’t want to bring it, up because all I seem to be doing is infuriating people.
The squat hurts me. I understand that it is a basic functional thing that all humans can do. But I have damaged the cartilage beneath my knee cap.
The exact same injury for some one else may or may not effect them in a different way. Only I know how my knee feels when I do certain movements.
That being said, over the last 3 months I have been leg pressing I have noticed my legs are stronger and maybe, just maybe I might be able to start squatting.
But then I look at an exercise in terms of how much can be achieved. I believe that body weight squats is indeed attainable. But I think that my knee issues will be come to be a limiting factor at some point as I make progress on the squat, this would be despite how massive my quads get.
However the leg press feels difference. I don't think even if I managed to reach 250kg on the leg press that my knee problem would ever stop me from completing the lift. Which is why for ME the leg press is the better exercise.
Big pete is right that one does NOT have to squat at all. Again I did not want to bring this up because if I brought it up, you guys would have just got even more cheesed off with me.
Take a look at this article.
Regardless, my aim at the moment is to build my legs up and them maybe just maybe, after a good 6 - 12 months of work, I can test the waters again with squats.
However it may just be the case, that I may never be able to do them.
Currently my legs routine contains: leg press, split squats, lunges and step ups. The lunge is a bit tough for me, but I’m going to do body weight and build up from there.
You have to remember one thing, I am not training to be a power lifter, so power lifting movements are not necessarily of any use to me.
That not to say that if I was able to do squats I wouldnt do em and Dead lifts, but at the moment, there simply isn’t enough strength or mass in my legs to compensate for my injury.
The deadlift maybe a different kettle of fish to the squat. It just seems different, and maybe one day that is far more likely to be doable. But I need to get strong first before adding it in there.
At the end of the month, I'm going back to speak to my physio and Ill see what he has to say. I do know that the surgeon who operated on me told me to "forget about squatting ever again".
As for my upper body routine. It's a generic routine. But I am still trying to gain mass. So concentrating on one thing twice a week per body part will hopefully enable me to make gains in the fastest most consistent way.
I'm literally one week in to my new routine and I think it's going well and this is coming from some that that has been training for years (inefficiently and inconsitantly) and never made much progress.
Some of the best changes I have made to my routine is training body parts twice a week and switching to machines. Yep that's right machines! with the machine, all the variables are exactly the same, you just change the weight and go. No waiting for the bar, no problem with people asking when are you going to be finished no problem with not having a spotter, no problem with the bars being differnet width or weight from the last time.
There are people at my level who I see are still benching the same weights whilst I who have been using the mahcine have made weight increases.
Thats what it comes down to. Progress is measured by weight. Regardless whether its free weights vs machines. For me, Im looking to get somewhere first and machines are enabling me to do this.
For fairly novice level trainees, they should start on machines, make some solid progress, get some strength and then move on to free weights.
My aim is to spend the rest of this year on machines, and then if I feel I need to switch back to free weights.
But some of the biggest guys in my gym, I saw yesterday using machines, so Im not to concerned, plus I can see in my self the progress being made, so I know it works.
Honestly In about 3 months last time round I went from 40kg on the flat bench to 42.5kg! That was it. On the machines I have moved up by about 10kg already over the last 3 months and seen physiological changes in my body.
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Caporegime
Video?
*Sigh*
Nobody is disputing that leg presses will build big legs at all. The key difference is functional... Squatting properly is a much more balances exercise than a leg press and will do more to help resolve your current issue than leg press (which ha greater patellar force than a squat).
You keep comig up with reasons NOT to do these things without trying to address any of the underpinning issues (or even acknowledge them). I could have sat back after cruahing my wrist in a car accident and accepted drastically reduced mobility in it, together ith unpleasant shoulder badness from the time in a cast. But I didn't, and I wanted to cry most of the time, but I am not one for 'settling' as the NHS would like.
So if you wantto settle for your condition, it is your call. But considering the effortyou have shown with your weightloss, I find the disparity jarring. Good luck and may you id a decent physio one day.
Nobody is disputing that leg presses will build big legs at all. The key difference is functional... Squatting properly is a much more balances exercise than a leg press and will do more to help resolve your current issue than leg press (which ha greater patellar force than a squat).
You keep comig up with reasons NOT to do these things without trying to address any of the underpinning issues (or even acknowledge them). I could have sat back after cruahing my wrist in a car accident and accepted drastically reduced mobility in it, together ith unpleasant shoulder badness from the time in a cast. But I didn't, and I wanted to cry most of the time, but I am not one for 'settling' as the NHS would like.
So if you wantto settle for your condition, it is your call. But considering the effortyou have shown with your weightloss, I find the disparity jarring. Good luck and may you id a decent physio one day.
Ok ok, give me about a week (honestly) and Ill update again regarding squats. I basically want to speak to physio.
I could, start with just body weight and at least have them in there and make super small baby weight increases.
I could, start with just body weight and at least have them in there and make super small baby weight increases.
Caporegime
No one is asking you to slap on big weights for squats... a simple video of a body weight squat would be a great starting point.
Caporegime
Opeth. I'll say it again, like many others have.
Video.
I think I and many others also said it in other threads....
VIDEO
Video.
I think I and many others also said it in other threads....
VIDEO
Caporegime
I'd just like to add:
Squats: 3 joint movement (hips, knees, ankles)
Leg press: 3 joint movement (hips, knees, ankles).
I'll just leave that there and go finish my muffin
Squats: 3 joint movement (hips, knees, ankles)
Leg press: 3 joint movement (hips, knees, ankles).
I'll just leave that there and go finish my muffin
Opeth, did you even read the advice that was given to you previously? What we say seems to get completely filtered out, either that or you just totally lack basic comprehension of the topics at hand.
TBH, I think your own research is heavily focussed on confirming what you want to be true, rather than finding actual solutions.
Let's start here.
250kg leg press is not the same load as a 250kg squat. Simple physics tells us this. A 250kg leg press should really be pretty easy for most people who have trained a little.
This is just totally made up BS.
How have you got it into your head that you need to strengthen your legs before you can squat and deadlift?
Your understanding of this situation is completely incorrect. Here's why:
1) If you can walk around and perform normal daily activities with your legs, you already possess the strength needed to perform squats and deads.
2) What you lack is stability, probably mobility, kinaesthetic awareness of what your body is doing, and also correct muscular activation. Leg pressing does nothing to fix these deficits, and adding load to your dysfunctional legs with this exercise will very likely exacerbate your problems.
3) The best way of fixing your problems is to squat and deadlift. As I mentioned before, these are extremely simply movements and when performed correctly really shouldn't cause you problems*. Step ups and other single leg work are fantastic (better that squats for correcting certain things), but if you can't squat then I highly doubt you will be performing any of these other exercises correctly.
*common sense required.
I agree with a lot of it. He's wrong if he was saying that leg press is enough to build leg strength though, but I really hope that wasn't his point.
By that retarded logic, don't bench, deadlift, run, sprint, cycle, snatch, C&J, etc. because you aren't doing that sport...
I think I've wasted more than enough time on this now.
TBH, I think your own research is heavily focussed on confirming what you want to be true, rather than finding actual solutions.
Let's start here.
250kg leg press is not the same load as a 250kg squat. Simple physics tells us this. A 250kg leg press should really be pretty easy for most people who have trained a little.
This is just totally made up BS.
How have you got it into your head that you need to strengthen your legs before you can squat and deadlift?
Your understanding of this situation is completely incorrect. Here's why:
1) If you can walk around and perform normal daily activities with your legs, you already possess the strength needed to perform squats and deads.
2) What you lack is stability, probably mobility, kinaesthetic awareness of what your body is doing, and also correct muscular activation. Leg pressing does nothing to fix these deficits, and adding load to your dysfunctional legs with this exercise will very likely exacerbate your problems.
3) The best way of fixing your problems is to squat and deadlift. As I mentioned before, these are extremely simply movements and when performed correctly really shouldn't cause you problems*. Step ups and other single leg work are fantastic (better that squats for correcting certain things), but if you can't squat then I highly doubt you will be performing any of these other exercises correctly.
*common sense required.
That article doesn't refute what we have been saying!!
I agree with a lot of it. He's wrong if he was saying that leg press is enough to build leg strength though, but I really hope that wasn't his point.
A squat is not solely a powerlifting movement! It is one of the most effective exercises available for anyone looking to build muscle and general strength. Again, you can't replace your total lack of knowledge on a subject with stupid guessing hashed together from very blinkered research.
By that retarded logic, don't bench, deadlift, run, sprint, cycle, snatch, C&J, etc. because you aren't doing that sport...
I think I've wasted more than enough time on this now.
Caporegime
I think you will have to start charging for your advice on this topic soon, so much time given.
...and how much do you squat MorbaI'd just like to add:
Squats: 3 joint movement (hips, knees, ankles)
Leg press: 3 joint movement (hips, knees, ankles).
I'll just leave that there and go finish my muffin
There are many exercises that use those three joints. It's the relative joint ROM/angle, loading angles and stabilisation stresses that make the difference.
Caporegime
Maybe Morba's point was to highlight that if you can leg press you can squat?? He can be cryptic when he has cake on his mind.
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