***OFFICAL*** Left 4 Dead Thread!

Both discussed plugins uploaded and activated.

Infected HUD Improvement Plugin
Vs Spectate/"Infinite Hunters" Exploit Fix
 
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Aekeron said:
I've just seen the reply to your plugin post on alliedmodders - I'll still install it but do let me know when you fix the hopefully minor issue :)

edit: Both discussed plugins uploaded and activated.

Infected HUD Improvement Plugin
Vs Spectate/"Infinite Hunters" Exploit Fix
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I didn't see what that guy was seeing on my server last night which was running the same version, so gonna have to try and reproduce what he's getting. It's frustrating when you get bugs (or potential bugs) that only show up with a packed server.

If you get the same output in your logs please let me know. :)
 
Durzel said:
I didn't see what that guy was seeing on my server last night which was running the same version, so gonna have to try and reproduce what he's getting. It's frustrating when you get bugs (or potential bugs) that only show up with a packed server.

If you get the same output in your logs please let me know. :)
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I'll keep an eye on them :)
 
It's just occured to me from re-reading the AlliedMods thread that the guy who responded has pasted output from the 4th January, which suggests either he was using an earlier version of the plugin (I pasted it in a couple of places on the forum while I was looking for help on bugs).

Also, his output talks about a function called "DelayedDmgUpdate" - well in version 1.0.0.0 I renamed it to delayedDmgUpdate. That guy is definitely using an older version of the plugin.
 
Durzel said:
It's just occured to me from re-reading the AlliedMods thread that the guy who responded has pasted output from the 4th January, which suggests either he was using an earlier version of the plugin (I pasted it in a couple of places on the forum while I was looking for help on bugs).

Also, his output talks about a function called "DelayedDmgUpdate" - well in version 1.0.0.0 I renamed it to delayedDmgUpdate. That guy is definitely using an older version of the plugin.
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Rocking. I'll check my logs and edit out my post about the issue :)
 
Delvis said:
Yes, charming :)



How is that not directed at me? I did read your post, and if YOU re-read your post, YOU clearly state that it's people like me who ruin the game...Ask people here who have played with me, and they can all say I play pretty fairly thank you.

I'll say it AGAIN shall I? I don't encourage the 'exploits' or whatever people want to call them. But calling them exploits is stupid, you aren't clipping through walls or parts of the map, or jumping on top of eachother to gain access to unreachable areas, you are using part of the MAP, it is there, so what can you do.

As Aekeron said, in co-op, fine, do what you want...In a vs. match, do 'exploits' and you will be kicked from the servers if that's what he wishes to happen.
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Utilising idiosyncrasies in a game engine or a map design to circumvent certain fundamental game features is the very definition of an exploit. The fact that you clearly and repeatedly advocate such practices (along with many others) grrs me somewhat. Whether you choose to participate yourself is a) irrelevant and b) not something I accused you of.

Now off with you!
 
I don't seriously think for a second that the designers made a smashable door and a pile of crates by accident, they fully intended that there be multiple ways out. In those two cases using the lift or the door will allow slightly faster progression at the expense of a standard horde (the door takes a lot of hits and the crates take some careful positioning).

They are clearly there for those exact purposes, using them or not is personal choice and sure as heck shouldnt be a kickable offense! That's like kicking someone for using a pipe bomb after starting the lift, or running away from the tank...

Unless the game devs explicitly state they are exploits - in which case they would fix them. But come on, a stack of crates under a vent that you can move into position? It's hardly clipping through the map.

(Out of respect for Aekeron I wouldn't use either of these tactics on his servers, just so you know. But I don't agree with treating them like cheats :) ).
 
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Wang Computer said:
Utilising idiosyncrasies in a game engine or a map design to circumvent certain fundamental game features is the very definition of an exploit. The fact that you clearly and repeatedly advocate such practices (along with many others) grrs me somewhat. Whether you choose to participate yourself is a) irrelevant and b) not something I accused you of.

Now off with you!
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Eh? =/

Like I said, if you think it shouldn't be there, contact Valve and the mappers, maybe the boxes are supposed to be there? Stop moaning already :p

I've only ever seen the door bashing one been done, once, not many people know about it and if they do, they tend to have the common decency to NOT do it.

As for the box thing I've never seen that utilised either.

Now stop trying to use big words, and stop crying over such petty thing's :p
 
Personally I can't see how anyone can justify breaking down the door on NM3 or bypassing any intended cresendo event - it's not smart play, it's exactly as stated above - utilising idosyncrasies in a game engine/map design to exploit.

Also, "everyone does it" isn't a valid excuse either.

Most of the time I play online now there will be a guy on the team who will tell the rest of the team to go and break down the door on NM3 instead of using the lift. Fortunately I've managed to gently convince them to do it the proper way by saying "it's more fun this way" or whatever. It's a shame though.

Then you have things that aren't necessarily exploits but are frankly cheap - like camping under the ramp on the NM finale making you/your team practically invulnerable. Problem with fixing that, and other things, is you end up with Valve having to make maps with little or not creativity at all because you end up with people exploiting any geometry that happens to look good but also makes nullifies cresendos, attacks, etc.

I swear the playerbase is their own worst enemy - you get people moaning about the lack of updates/new content from Valve when it's the very same people who are creating so much additional work for them to patch the multitude of exploits that they keep digging up and abusing.

Helium_Junkie said:
I don't seriously think for a second that the designers made a smashable door and a pile of crates by accident, they fully intended that there be multiple ways out. In those two cases using the lift or the door will allow slightly faster progression at the expense of a standard horde (the door takes a lot of hits and the crates take some careful positioning).
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See opinions like this just boggle the mind. Do you seriously honestly think that Valve would create an "alternative route" that involved hitting a door repeately, a door which shows absolutely no sign of breaking apart at all until the moment it is destroyed, as an alternative to a crescendo event that triggers when you press a button? The reason the door is breakable is so the Tank can get through it, if Valve had intended for survivors to break it down then they would've made it so it visibly damaged the more times you struck it, etc.
 
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Durzel said:
like camping under the ramp on the NM finale making you/your team practically invulnerable.
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Load map into Hammer, add basic mesh at end of ramp, fixed.

Job done, that's the most easiest thing to fix to be honest, If they want it done they'll do it I'm sure :p
 
Helium_Junkie said:
I don't seriously think for a second that the designers made a smashable door and a pile of crates by accident, they fully intended that there be multiple ways out. In those two cases using the lift or the door will allow slightly faster progression at the expense of a standard horde (the door takes a lot of hits and the crates take some careful positioning).

They are clearly there for those exact purposes, using them or not is personal choice and sure as heck shouldnt be a kickable offense! That's like kicking someone for using a pipe bomb after starting the lift, or running away from the tank...

Unless the game devs explicitly state they are exploits - in which case they would fix them. But come on, a stack of crates under a vent that you can move into position? It's hardly clipping through the map.
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If we waited for everything to be indicated as an exploit by a dev we'd end up with a huge pile of cheats/dodgy behaviour marked as "OK" until an update that fixes it.

The simple way I look at it is:

Q1) In co-op if you "skip"/"exploit"/"whatever" who do you annoy?

A1) Nobody - The AI doesn't get annoyed

Q2) If Vs if you "skip" a crescendo/panic event or do something to make the Infected's life hard who do you annoy?

A2) Half the people on the server.

Surely that seems logical?

And the argument "Yeah, but they could do it too" doesn't hold any weight with me. What happens when the first group to do a map don't use the "exploit" but the second group does? If it was a viable alternative route, why bother adding an alarmed door to the map at all? Just make it permenantly blocked. What happens if the Tank spawns behind the door if the Survivors have skipped it? It's an indestructable door.
 
Delvis said:
That's like saying when I'm infected, I wait for the survivors to open that door so I can drop through the vent is a glitch.

You could say that bashing down the metal roll door thing on one of the no mercy levels is a glitch....but it isn't to be honest.
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Don't know why it is there really. The door button can be pressed from the other side (if you make it :D) and if a tank spawns in the warehouse room after, he can just run and jump out the middle floor window (by the Medi Cabinet).

I do agree with you, the "exploits" in this game are quite abundant. As long as people don't abuse it and have a fairish game of VS then I'm usually well happy :D

There is a HUGE difference between tactic, exploiting and being good. Some people don't know the difference, which does annoy me slightly as I have been called an "exploiter" before for; using the sound queues in game, shooting boomers through walls and generally having better perception of what is going on than the other team. (^Tank^).


Aekeron said:
I personally don't care too much about the map exploits in co-op mode only. As soon as you hit Vs mode they become kickable offences in my eye, and repeatedly doing it is just beyond lame (bannable).
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Amen. Btw what is your in game name? I forget everyone who doesn't have the same steam/forum name :D

Wang Computer said:
Utilising idiosyncrasies in a game engine or a map design to circumvent certain fundamental game features is the very definition of an exploit. The fact that you clearly and repeatedly advocate such practices (along with many others) grrs me somewhat. Whether you choose to participate yourself is a) irrelevant and b) not something I accused you of.

Now off with you!
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Let's stop the fussing and the feudin'?

We all agree people who use lame exploits are lame. E.G:- Door Bash, Crate positioning, All hug under the ramp No Merc 05 so no one can get you, etc.

I'm not so sure about your comment of map design. Some ways the maps are set make it clear to me that they have been designed for certain attacks/defences/etc.

For example, No Merc 04: That map is complete balls for a smoker. Yet a correctly placed one with nice team work after the elevator event can really **** some teams over.

Even regarding "lets all pile in this closet" tactic/map issue; I think it's a valid strategy - sooner or later you have to leave and if the infected are organised you are gonna walk out into another **** storm no matter what :)

Although, being fair to you - there are some dodgy points as previously mentioned where the map contains something that was probably missed by developerts/testers and therefore people will clearly use it to gain an unfair advantage or skip 1/2 a level. This is the big one you just have to be weary of :)

They are my thoughts, good game to Mango, Sharpyx etc last night. You could tell that someone said go left but then it went wrong as death proceeded your exit from the room :D
 
Quick question for everyone that uses the Vs servers:

Are you still able to hear the other team speaking over mic? I left this enabled but it was being funny a while back. I can look into it if people are having problems.
 
I usually use lobbies/random servers or Hampshire Heavies empty servers mate. Although I'm not an advocate of all_talk as they get to hear the leet strategies of taking them down being formulated :D
 
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