Poll: Official 2024 Austrian Grand Prix Race Thread - Red Bull Ring, Spielberg - Race 11/24

[Kenai]

Yup, way too many rules are making the sport boring, I want to see action packed aggresive driving

The max thing is a good example of a ruckus about absolutely nothing, its ruining racing

The Max ruckus exists only because people are perceiving a lack of rules (and a lack of consistency in the application of the rules we do have) to ensure the racing was fair, even though he was deemed to have caused a collision and penalised for it.

'Too many rules' is absolutely not the problem and people would soon start switching off if the racing became some kind of free for all, because when you try to race open wheelers without any etiquette/rules at all, you'll just end up with constant crashes and retirements, not decent racing.

 

[cuke2u]

Please pass us the name of your dealer so I can buy some of the extra-strong RB skunk you're smoking. Watch the Twitter video above, Max was moving to the right, then as Norris approaches he changes direction and moves to the left to squeeze him. Are the Max-defenders now in a world where we pretend the car changes direction of it's own volition? And the first move isn't even the worse part, it's going straight ahead at the corner, turning left into a right-hander to hit Norris a second time.

EDIT: You know what, do us all a favour and pause this at 5 seconds in;

Max Verstappen onboard + team radio. #austriangrandprix #austriangp

#austriangrandprix #sainz #austriangp #racing #schumacher #crash #f1 #formula1 #lewishamilton #teamradio #onboard #george #georgerussel

www.youtube.com

So why are you still trying to defend the move?

Hardly. It's P1 and P2 in the WDC going hell for leather against each other, something that has not happened in the last couple of years. The end result was a collision and significant damage to both cars. It's hardly "nothing" so trying to sweep it under the carpet is rather silly.

You're first video confirms my point, at 5 secs in there is no sudden movement of Max's steering to the left and his car maintained the direction it was going.
Lando had time also to avoid the collision but was far too desperate to overtake. The incident was down to both of them driving overtly aggressively.

Do yoursel a favour, either you need to come off the drugs or go on some.

Laughable from a self proclaimed Max and Red Bull hater.

 

[Scam]

You're first video confirms my point, at 5 secs in there is no sudden movement of Max's steering to the left and his car maintained the direction it was going.

There's little point retreading what has already been proven in the two videos posted above. If you're not going to accept it, you're not going to accept it. Anyone with eyes can see he turns the wheel left at 5secs and anyone can see from the Twitter video the space between him and the left edge of the track decreases as he approaches the corner as a result of that. Ant Davidson says exactly the same thing in his video and that was done like 5 minutes after the race finished. He's no "armchair expert."

Lando had time also to avoid the collision but was far too desperate to overtake

That's an interesting choice of words. If Lando had to "avoid the collision" why was that? Oh right, because of the above

 

[cuke2u]

Not wasting my time in replying to who ie basically a self proclaimed, biased and sexist Red Bull hater.
Smoke your stuff

 

[Armageus]

Please pass us the name of your dealer so I can buy some of the extra-strong RB skunk you're smoking.

Do yoursel a favour, either you need to come off the drugs or go on some.

Smoke your stuff

Consider this a warning - if you both can't debate without resulting to this level, then you won't be allowed to debate in this thread.

Don't spoil it, the F1 threads have been well behaved for a good while now

 

[Mesai]

You're first video confirms my point, at 5 secs in there is no sudden movement of Max's steering to the left and his car maintained the direction it was going.
Lando had time also to avoid the collision but was far too desperate to overtake. The incident was down to both of them driving overtly aggressively.

Do yoursel a favour, either you need to come off the drugs or go on some.

Laughable from a self proclaimed Max and Red Bull hater.

Lando definitely ruined his own race (again), and that pressure seems to be getting to him.

Say whatever you want about Max’s driving, Lando had multiple track limit infringements and had every chance to put himself in a better position. Charles and Lewis have been much better at racing against Max.

 

[cuke2u]

Lando definitely ruined his own race (again), and that pressure seems to be getting to him.

Say whatever you want about Max’s driving, Lando had multiple track limit infringements and had every chance to put himself in a better position. Charles and Lewis have been much better at racing against Max.

Quite, Lando had the best seat in the house to see a car closing into his space and could have avoided a collision, plus knowing that Max will always robustly defend his lead. Lando chose not to in his desperation to overtake.
As far as I'm concerned both Max and Lando were as bad as each other and both deserved a penalty.
It was a disappointing result for both drivers really as it was edge of the seat stuff and proper racing until that incident.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Agreed, you have to play the long game. He’s cost himself a huge number of points, especially if the reports are true and you factor in him having to drive an older version of the car next race. That’s experience for your though, he’ll hopefully learn from it.

 

[Mesai]

Agreed, you have to play the long game. He’s cost himself a huge number of points, especially if the reports are true and you factor in him having to drive an older version of the car next race. That’s experience for your though, he’ll hopefully learn from it.

It’s definitely a skill that separates great drivers from WDC drivers. I’m still hoping that Charles gets a strong and consistent car for the next regs.

 

[SimonRigga]

The 'trumpian' level of 'troll' in this thread is strong. I actually lol'd at a couple of the above comments.

Still it was the best race in ages, so I gave it an 8, happy for Russell to get his second win!

Roll on Silverstone, i'll even know the corners on that track given we're driving it this evening (in the OCUK VR race series ), i'll also know most of the grassy bits

 

[jaybee]

Max got a penalty for causing a collision, time to move on...

The extra focus and attention on collisions involving Max, are fairly obviously because of his history, including winning his first championship during a season with particularly poor driving standards. You know this though.

Lando also has himself to blame. There was space on the outside but held his path even though he could see Max was angled for that spot long ago.

Lando held his path because he was up against the very edge of the track. To give way and move off track is exactly what Max wants, the ability to continue to advertise that if you don't move, an accident will occur. This is not racing. That's forcing another driver off track at that point. Drivers are entitled to stand their ground. The problem is that the FIA does not penalize sufficiently to make the problem go away.
If it was a street circuit Lando would have been pushed into a wall. He was pretty much as far left as he good go. Frankly, even if he was not, he's allowed to place a car alongside and maintain a straight path. Max has an obligation to give a cars width minimum and not squeeze until people leave the track.

 

[Mesai]

Lando held his path because he was up against the very edge of the track. To give way and move off track is exactly what Max wants, the ability to continue to advertise that if you don't move, an accident will occur. This is not racing. That's forcing another driver off track at that point. Drivers are entitled to stand their ground. The problem is that the FIA does not penalize sufficiently to make the problem go away.
If it was a street circuit Lando would have been pushed into a wall. He was pretty much as far left as he good go. Frankly, even if he was not, he's allowed to place a car alongside and maintain a straight path. Max has an obligation to give a cars width minimum and not squeeze until people leave the track.

Yea, I’m not disputing the rules, ruling, circumstances or anything like that, I’m just saying that he probably could’ve created a better situation for himself with a bit more patience.

No doubt Lando is a strong driver but hopefully he’s learning from these encounters.

 

[Greboth]

Quite, Lando had the best seat in the house to see a car closing into his space and could have avoided a collision, plus knowing that Max will always robustly defend his lead. Lando chose not to in his desperation to overtake.
As far as I'm concerned both Max and Lando were as bad as each other and both deserved a penalty.

You mean the space that only started closing after Lando had made, and committed, to his move down the outside? Unless your suggesting Lando should have driven off the circuit to avoid a collision? Which would be comical given you're quoting, and agreeing, with a post about Lando having too many track limit violations.

You're making the wrong point though. It's not whether Lando could have avoided the collision because yes, he could have driven off track, he could have settled for second and never attempted a pass, he could have even sat out the race all together or any other options that could have avoided the collision. The pertinent question though is not could Lando have avoided the collision, it's should Lando have to avoid the collision?

 

[Eddie99]

Lando definitely ruined his own race (again), and that pressure seems to be getting to him.

Say whatever you want about Max’s driving, Lando had multiple track limit infringements and had every chance to put himself in a better position. Charles and Lewis have been much better at racing against Max.

How did Lando ruin his own race, are you saying he somehow made Max drive into him? I don't think Charles and Lewis did a better job racing against him by avoiding collisions, if everyone held their ground like Lando then Max might've grown out of it by now and race fairly.

 

[jaybee]

How did Lando ruin his own race, are you saying he somehow made Max drive into him? I don't think Charles and Lewis did a better job racing against him by avoiding collisions, if everyone held their ground like Lando then Max might've grown out of it by now and race fairly.

Lewis did try in 2021. The outcome was a series of accidents collisions, "no further action necessary" and penalties which did not really impede Max in the grand scheme of things.
The problem lies with the FIA allowing this behaviour to continue.
It feels like we are due a big accident soon when someone - not necessarily Max, as I say a lot are moving dangerously now to defend - decides to chop across with big closing speeds.

 

[cuke2u]

You mean the space that only started closing after Lando had made, and committed, to his move down the outside? Unless your suggesting Lando should have driven off the circuit to avoid a collision? Which would be comical given you're quoting, and agreeing, with a post about Lando having too many track limit violations.

You're making the wrong point though. It's not whether Lando could have avoided the collision because yes, he could have driven off track, he could have settled for second and never attempted a pass, he could have even sat out the race all together or any other options that could have avoided the collision. The pertinent question though is not could Lando have avoided the collision, it's should Lando have to avoid the collision?

The outcome was that both drivers ruined each other's race.
However it is clear that Lando was driving his car into a dimishing space, even before he was alongside Max and obvious from the angle Max's car was pointing. Surely anyone who has raced in F1 long enough as Lando has with Max, or even with Hamilton for that matter, has the sense to realise that both will never yield. It was foolish to attempt a overtake around the outside simply with that corner anyway as it makes you very vulnerable to being run off the road at the apex. Lando then is guilty in some part of ruining his own race.
Of course Max should, and possibly could, have also avoided the collision but he didn't.
However it was a very minor incident in the first place.

Here is a quote from Norris after he'd watched the race video:"
Norris has concluded he would not do anything differently in the battle if he could change the situation."

“In general I’m feeling good,” Norris said. “I’m very excited for the British Grand Prix.
“At the same time I reviewed everything, we’ve gone over stuff, and let’s say I wouldn't really change what I did. I was fighting, and that’s what we want – we want to fight! “We don’t want to complain, we don’t want things to end like they did, both from my Max’s side and from my side. So, that’s life sometimes. “We’re fighting, we both want to win, and we’re going to push it to the limits – some slightly more than others. But yeah, at the same time, I’m excited. We’re going to have more fights together, and I look forward to those times.”

I hope that kind of racing continues really.

 

[Greboth]

Of course Max should have also avoided the collision but he didn't.

That’s all you needed to say.

 

[GravyMonster]

However it is clear that Lando was driving his car into a dimishing space

This is the point - it should not have been a diminishing space. The rule, which was put in place a few years ago to stop Max pulling things like this, prevents the drivers from making 2 moves.

It was foolish to attempt a overtake around the outside simply with that corner anyway as it makes you very vulnerable to being run off the road at the apex. Lando then is guilty in some part of ruining his own race.

He wasn't trying to overtake around the outside. The point is to force your opponent off the usual line to compromise their exit of the corner. You, as the attacker, can then pre-empt this to ensure you get a good exit and use DRS to overtake easily in to turn 4. Max clearly knew he was in a weak position, and his only defence was to cause an incident.

 

[Flibster]

Agreed.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1808437017245622604

 

[KiNgPiN83]

Maybe Lando was heeding the final warning about track limits and didn't want to take to the kerbs. Or maybe he'd just had enough? Who knows.. I do wish Marko would shut up about it though.