Oled out of the box now what.........

[jpaul]

From a review published today of the Xbox ones as a UHD Player

had read that, unfortunately they imply xbox ones is not processing, but do not have the confidence/knowledge to assert it.
the ub900 review asserts no processing, which review do you find more credible ? (see their oppo review too)
strangely there is a german direct comparison x vs ub900 where ub900 does look better (see the clouds) but it is a bit lighweight as avforums

 

[vila]

Err the German review you just posted a link to out right says "In the end, we were able to conclude that we could not see any differences in quality"

 

[Kol]

Those professional calibrators must be laughing all the way to the bank, £45 an hour

£45/hour but it's not your typical 8 hour job is it? You could be doing one or two a day plus travel expenses. Not that lucrative.

 

[jpaul]

Err the German review you just posted a link to out right

that is what they said, I know, but irrespective, look at pictures (admittedly they did not address how they map them to sdr, as Vincent does in some of his reviews)

 

[Ayahuasca]

£45/hour but it's not your typical 8 hour job is it? You could be doing one or two a day plus travel expenses. Not that lucrative.

One a day for even 4 days a week still nets you way above average salary, I imagine most do it as a weekend thing though for extra income.

 

[Nick1881]

They also travel a lot, the guy that did mine was in Scotland the week before. It was his main job, as well as selling AV equipment, he did calibrations on projectors and surround sound systems too. He gave me an Atmos demo at his house and I purchased some ex demo speakers off him for a great price.

Also the equipment he used cost thousands.

 

[vila]

that is what they said, I know, but irrespective, look at pictures (admittedly they did not address how they map them to sdr, as Vincent does in some of his reviews)

Its not irrespective - the review completely undermines the snake oil argument you are trying to make.

The pictures show nothing - they're 111kb 1000 x 445 jpeg with a green line down the middle ; There is no direct capture of the two 4k digital images you can do a direct a/b comparison with.


In the mean time can I interest you in some Russ Andrews mains conditioning cables.
http://www.russandrews.com/powerkord300/

 

[jpaul]

I read the hdtvtest ub900 review for the first time, it (like french ub900) acknowldeges there is image processing by uhd players,
so the output bitstreams are not the same from all players - agree/disagree. ?

I think no-one has 4k captures, maybe because folks are not interested, or for a bona-fide site it would show they were using hdcp stripping.

The images in the french review, discuss oppo vs pan rendering of clouds, that was what caught my eye about the German, xbox pictures
even though, like all, they are not 4k captures, a small resolution image (the French ones are not enormous) they can show differences.
There are not enough images though on the de site.

The french comparsion images do show, subtle image improvemenst, as a result of Pany processing (not exploiting the chroma upscaling), which are changing output bit stream
(eg the tiger) the xbox in comparison does not have similar switches/options.

so the panasonic can change the output bitstream, in a manner benecficial to the image, and it would be different to the xbox one s stream.
Unless you haved both players in front of you you would probably be happy with either.

 

[vila]

Many UHD players have POST processing that they can apply to the image, but these are altering the digital image that is stored on the disc.

I have no disagreement with you that post processing will differ between players and consumers may or mayn't find that of value but if using the player a a digital transport to simply output the signal that is on the disk via HDMI (which is exactly what most people will do) there is no difference between players.

In conclusion the review you posted compared the Panasonic UB900 and Samsung k8500 and only highlights differences in their handling of SD NTSC Video - which is upscaling and de interlacing both Post processes.

"Its processing isn’t perfect and is tripped up by some of the more obscure NTSC video transfer cadences, but these are almost irrelevant on a format which is predominantly used for 24fps movies. (On the other hand, Samsung’s UBD-K8500 is cheaper and is available in more countries right now). Where it counts, the UB900 has no significant performance issues that we could detect. The fact that it’s tastefully designed and is easy on the eyes doesn’t change the picture and sound you experience, but it adds to the DMPUB900’s appeal all the same."

 

[jpaul]

sorry not sure I understand - the hdtvtest review says there is processing on the Samsung you cannot disable, so cannot get a raw stream

Panasonic arguably has the best track record of any major manufacturer in consistently presenting an undistorted picture on its BD players. The Samsung K8500 UHD BD player has a [Noise Reduction] slider control in its picture menu, and indeed it’s possible to set it to 0 to leave the Luma layer alone, but the chroma channels are hit with some temporal blurring at all times. It rarely causes a visible issue, but in the upcoming Blu-ray release of The Blue Note, an actor’s dark red shadow cast against a saturated red wall appeared as intended on the Panasonic DMPUB900, but showed a loss of detail and fuzzy, powdery edges on the Samsung owed to the unwanted processing.

(my conjecture) since the xbox one s has fewer options than either Pan or Samsung, very likley it cannot output raw image either.

The ub900 review conclusion, asserting (as you say) "the UB900 has no significant performance issues that we could detect." is complimentary (like the fr review) since this player can output raw stream.

edit: another thought : the avforums k8500 review
does not seem to discover the raw stream cannot be output, so that further discredits their xbox one s review (did not check their pan review) ... it comes down to which reviews we trust and knowledge of underlying hevc encode mechansim where forward/backward image deltas , inherently introduce noise that may need circumventing, for viewer.

 

[vila]

I was under the impression when i last used a samsung that noise control was only alterable when in the 'user' picture mode which is picture post processing mode as opposed to just setting in to standard where nothing is configurable?

Obviously one would assume setting all of the user settings to zero would result in no change to the image, but as is often seen with AVR's that offer adjustable image processing some post processing can still be evident unless you put the image into pass thru mode. Did they just test the players chroma in 'User mode' or did they also test it in standard?

Its entirely possible that there is a problem with that player and post processing can't be switched off. But that doesn't mean and unprocessed image between 2 players is any different. Indeed post processing is almost always a 'feature' of more expensive players as it requires additional hardware to do it.


The review i posted from AV forums is written by Steve Withers, Ive been reading and listening to his reviews over the last decade. years as well as being the editor of the website he's certified by THX and the ISF and runs a Home Cinema installation company and a calibration business.

He's maintained for years there is not difference in picture when a player is used as a digital transport without post processing and output via HDMI. He's a well known credible expert in the British AV field and i trust his reviews - indeed he would probably stand to gain financially by saying there is a difference in the digital picture of players.


Your conjecture - that the Xbox cannot output the image "without" post processing has no factual basis.

Most of the hyperbole surrounding differences between UHD, Blu Ray players, HDMI cables stands solely on the ability to cast doubt rather than show any hard scientific difference, and proving a negative is almost impossible - as John Oliver said ; "Can you prove you're not a Donkey ****** ? "

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Those professional calibrators must be laughing all the way to the bank, £45 an hour

i take it you don't own a premium car or know much about professional calibrators either?

a professional calibrator will usually have thousands of pounds worth of equipment. not just a £75 colour meter that your local sweaty nerd usually has. they will also usually have had some form of training as well as experience.

oh what does this have to do with a premium car? go look at what hourly rates are at a BMW dealer for instance for a mechanic to work on your car.

you may also want to look into how much a proper world class professional photographer charges for a wedding. thousands of pounds per day.

Antonio Conte's hourly rate is around £4000 per hour. All he has to do is manage 50 professional football players.

People usually get what they are worth. What they are worth is usually set by the open market. If it was as lucrative as you seem to think it is. Why don't you become one? Not like there are any barriers preventing you from doing so.

Some DJ's charge £150 per hour. People who dress up as Disney characters for parties also charge around £150 an hour. These types of jobs don't have long hours. It's work here and there. Your also obliged to travel long distances to get work and you usually cannot afford to turn work down as it's usually not in very high demand.

 

[Ayahuasca]

I know enough about it to know it's a waste of money for the vast majority of viewers (it serves its place for those with OCD who watch all their content in the exact same conditions), all your other analogies make little sense in comparison but it's what I've come to expect from you, nearly every post you make on this forum is a car analogy.

Are you trying to say something can't be lucrative because not everyone is doing it? After initial buy in of equipment, travel costs and tax the hourly rate is still through the roof considering how stress free and on your own basis it is.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

I know enough about it to know it's a waste of money for the vast majority of viewers (it serves its place for those with OCD who watch all their content in the exact same conditions), all your other analogies make little sense in comparison but it's what I've come to expect from you, nearly every post you make on this forum is a car analogy.

Are you trying to say something can't be lucrative because not everyone is doing it? After initial buy in of equipment, travel costs and tax the hourly rate is still through the roof considering how stress free and on your own basis it is.

you have kind of proved my point. it's pointless for the vast majority, therefore they don't get it done. demand is limited. out of 100,000 people who have tv's maybe 1 has it professionally calibrated. i don't know a single person personally who has had it done. i'd probably be the only one to even know about it among the group of people i know.

make up artists charge about £75 an hour just to do hair and make up which is temporary (1 evening). i know someone who gets a make up artist to come round to her house for every occasion, basically any party even when she's not directly related to the hosts. an pays around £150 each time for this.

so £200 for 5+ years of reference quality tv is IMO worth it. it also makes the tv much more in demand when it comes to resale.

 

[Ayahuasca]

If you knew anything about it you'd know that it'd need recalibrating within 5 years to maintain reference quality, especially if anything in the environment it's in like lighting changes.

Also why would it be more in demand on resale? It'll be worth diddly squat that far down the line and in someone else's home the settings won't match their environment.

 

[CrimsonAvenger]

Even if it was lucrative, you are paying for the expertise AND the time spent. Supplying a service people want and for a price they are willing to pay.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

If you knew anything about it you'd know that it'd need recalibrating within 5 years to maintain reference quality, especially if anything in the environment it's in like lighting changes.

Also why would it be more in demand on resale? It'll be worth diddly squat that far down the line and in someone else's home the settings won't match their environment.

environment does have an effect but i doubt it's as big as you think it is. it's pretty much like me taking a tv from the bedroom and putting it in the games room. the environment has changed. but i doubt it will have changed so dramatically that it now needs a complete re-calibration. you can control some of the environment too. make sure you use the same LED light bulbs in every room, etc.

only if there was a huge change to the environment would it have a noticeable effect. which is why calibrators normally do a bright room and dark room calibration and then save both settings onto the tv.

after 5 years brightness will have degraded. all you would need to do is up the brightness to compensate. sure it won't be perfect but again it will be within a marginal amount of error.

resale price would be higher than the same tv had it not been calibrated because that has always been the case among enthusiasts. look at how much calibrated Kuro's or Panny plasmas still sell for. so you get some of the money back (not all of it) on resale.

 

[Ayahuasca]

I've used avforums for years and rarely see people even mention whether it's been calibrated when selling never mind people paying more for one, as you've said the majority of people don't know about it or don't have it done so when buying used I doubt many even care, not to the point of paying more than what the seller is asking anyway, most stuff on there goes for below the initial asking price.

@CrimsonAvenger That applies to pretty much any service though and many services offer something more noticeable than a calibrated TV.

 

[CrimsonAvenger]

@Ayahuasca Agreed. I think this is the point with a lot of AV whether it's sound or audio. Everyones ears and eyes are different. Mostly subjective IMHO.

 

[Nick1881]

I've used avforums for years and rarely see people even mention whether it's been calibrated when selling never mind people paying more for one, as you've said the majority of people don't know about it or don't have it done so when buying used I doubt many even care, not to the point of paying more than what the seller is asking anyway, most stuff on there goes for below the initial asking price.

@CrimsonAvenger That applies to pretty much any service though and many services offer something more noticeable than a calibrated TV.

I've seen loads of people say their TV is calibrated on AVF, I looked in the classifieds only a couple of days ago and there were some.

I don't personally know anyone else that has had theirs done, it's only something weird people like me do. But then I don't know anyone else that spends as many hours tweaking speakers and sound like I do either.