Only Person with a clutch problem eh ?

[TW]Fox;16031278 said:
Show me another car for the price the Vectra VXR was new that offers 280bhp? Its the whole point, bargain performance!

For the performance on offer not only is it cheap but its probably in with a shout of being the cheapest possible way of obtaining that power.
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That's not really the point, you where implying (possibly correctly) that a cheap performance car isn't designed to handle upgrades of this magnitude, to which I would have course agree :)

The pertinant question was, would an equivalent powered BMW withstand a similar percentage increase in torque reliably?

I think people have answered it, some cars use over engineered parts, some don't, there is no real pattern to it, so I guess price isn't the issue..

Thinking about it, Golf GTi ED30's are S3 engines in reality aren't they, so 'de-tuned' and more then capable of handling a large power hike compared to a standard Golf? and they aren't expensive..
 
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I guess an equivilent power BMW would be a 540i with 286bhp. It would indeed handle 50% more power as its a Getrag D also found in the M5, iirc.

But then a 540i, new, cost much more than the Vectra.
 
[TW]Fox;16035230 said:
I guess an equivilent power BMW would be a 540i with 286bhp. It would indeed handle 50% more power as its a Getrag D also found in the M5, iirc.

But then a 540i, new, cost much more than the Vectra.
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Clearly I think we can provide examples of cheap and expensive cars that would tolerate large peformance increases, so I'm inclined to say that price isn't a direct generic factor in this? :) That is all.. :)
 
I wonder if it relates to other models the manufacturer produce?

The Vectra being the most expensive car Vauxhall make (they do not make the VXR8) suggests it would make use of existing boxes. Ditto the 540 but given BMW make more powerful cars, the chances of them having a higher rated box available are therefore higher?

Either way tuning a car and being suprised when stuff goes bang is daft.
 
[TW]Fox;16035319 said:
I wonder if it relates to other models the manufacturer produce?

The Vectra being the most expensive car Vauxhall make (they do not make the VXR8) suggests it would make use of existing boxes. Ditto the 540 but given BMW make more powerful cars, the chances of them having a higher rated box available are therefore higher?

Either way tuning a car and being suprised when stuff goes bang is daft.
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VX have used Getrag boxes quite a bit in the past, some more over engineered then others of course!..I think it's quite random as to if they out-source gearboxes that are over engineered, or risk using something internal that is sailing close to the wind..



But do totally agree on the non-common sense of people who tune the cars and believe the tuning companies despite their claims flying in the face of the facts!..
 
I am not entirely convinced that major remaps are ever a good idea. I get small ones to smooth things out, etc etc but if you can safely and reliably get 340bhp from a car thats 280bhp stock why didnt the manufacturer do that given it was a flagship halo performance product? We are long past compromises for emissions and economy reasons at this end of the market.

BMW have taken 10 years of development to get the M57 3.0 diesel in the 330d to 231bhp from its original 184bhp yet half the internet thinks there is no downside to getting a bloke with a laptop to complete this process in 2 minutes.... It just seeems odd.
 
I've always thought this about tuning, especially when it comes to diesels where it's often just a matter of fooling a sensor or cranking up the pressure somewhere.... as you said, why dont they do it in the factory if it's that cheap and foolproof?
 
[TW]Fox;16035568 said:
BMW have taken 10 years of development to get the M57 3.0 diesel in the 330d to 231bhp from its original 184bhp yet half the internet thinks there is no downside to getting a bloke with a laptop to complete this process in 2 minutes.... It just seeems odd.
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Simple answer to that, built-in obsolescence.
 
Clarkey said:
Simple answer to that, built-in obsolescence.
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Absolute rubbish. They didnt launch the 330d in 1999 with a hobbled power output on purpose so they could sell it with more power later - especially as 'I want a smidge more power' is not the reason most new 3 Series buyers buy another new 3 Series.
 
I've always thought this about tuning, especially when it comes to diesels where it's often just a matter of fooling a sensor or cranking up the pressure somewhere.... as you said, why dont they do it in the factory if it's that cheap and foolproof?
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Simple, reliability/longevity and emissions..

If they could get no drop in all of those, they would, or use lower spec components to reduce cost.

:)
 
Tuning is a risk, if you don't do the research yourself and get all the supporting mods you need to do it safely you're increasing that risk.

It's a shame you can't trust the people selling you the kit but I guess they don't want to put people off or just don't understand it themselves.
 
Not convinced about emissions being the cause. All the diesel boys claim better mpg so this would reduce emissions as less fuel is being burnt.

I think its a reliability thing.
 
I know a couple people that work at the ford tech devopment place writing ECU programs and testing hardware (ie lately been testing stuff for the new fiesta st turbo)

all sorts of calibration has to go into the ecu for component protection blah blah blah i could get them on here to talk about it, but if you choose a remap you ahve to be confident the map is sensible

go on the audi sites and you have muppet fanboys banging on about how great this brand or that brand is, without ever even SEEING a dyno plot or knowing how much boost is required for that map

i swear, know nothing numpties should not be allowed to play about with cars
 
I honestly cant believe how stupid some people are. If your box is rated at 320nm, it's clearly a retarded approach to put more through it and expect reliability.
 
Lucero said:
I honestly cant believe how stupid some people are. If your box is rated at 320nm, it's clearly a retarded approach to put more through it and expect reliability.
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well arent you a condescending little **** today ?

As ive already previously stated. The gearbox is rated to 400NM constant torque (approx 300 lb/ft) the car puts out 260 lb/ft as standard. The remap takes it to 400 lb/ft, but it only puts out more than 300 lb/ft on a small portion of the rev range (2500 rpm to 5000rpm)

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Theory is, its rated to higher than 300 lb/ft for occasional torque, but should take 300 lb/ft all day every day so you should in theory be safe. Obviously in practice thats not the case, but theres no need to be a **** and call me retarded.
 
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Sorry, I realise it sounds a bit harsh, but it smacks of "obviousness" to me. Something, somewhere will fail. If you think it won't then you have to take what's coming :)

Oh, and I wasn't aiming my comment at you as such, but the chap earlier who states he's putting 500nm through his box
 
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They're a tuner, of course they're going to say it'll last....

Would be a very good advert if it said "Might kill your gearbox". :p
 
MrLOL said:
Theory is, its rated to higher than 300 lb/ft for occasional torque, but should take 300 lb/ft all day every day so you should in theory be safe. Obviously in practice thats not the case, but theres no need to be a **** and call me retarded.
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The other thing about tuning is people find out what is safe the hard way :)

The best option is to read a lot and find out what someone else has blown up - but if there's not much history out there you have to find these things out for yourself.
 
silane said:
They're a tuner, of course they're going to say it'll last....

Would be a very good advert if it said "Might kill your gearbox". :p
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What if they added 'we recommend purchasing our gearbox upgrade' to the description?

Unless there is no gearbox uprgrade available, I'd be surprised if there wasn't anything suitable out there though.
 
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