Ordered a viper green scirocco!

Biohazard said:
No one can say to someone who bought a car on credit that they will never own it, I see the point Fox was trying to make, but it is wrong. Should they keep the car and pay off the finance, they very much do own the car.
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It isn't a finance package (Well not in the way you are thinking), it's a PCP. It's a lease with an OPTION to purchase - but the option to purchase is seperate, it's like buying a used car at the end of the package. It isnt 'paying off the finance'.

He is renting the car for 3 years. After those 3 years, VW will collect it and retail it or send it to auction like any other lease car would, but in this case they will first offer it to him to buy at the GFV price.

It's not a loan secured on the vehicle.

(without taking into consideration that in reality, no one actually owns their vehicle at all. :p They are legally only the registered keepers as far as the state is concerned, the state owns our cars. ;) the money involved in buying is irrelevent to the legal standing)
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This is not true, whilst you have correctly identified that registered keeper and legal owner are two seperate things, if we purchased our cars we do indeed own them 100%. You own your car just as much as you own your graphics card. The government does not own your car.
 
So we're agreed, it's the impulsiveness you're having a go at, rather than the particular choice of car or buying new in general. :)
 
Hmmm having only read the first couple of posts, this thread has shown that leasing might be something for me.

Do you have to pay for the repairs on a lease car if someone dents/damages/scratches it and runs off ? If not, then I'm seriously considering leasing a car in the future. That way you can have a nice car, and not have to worry about leaving it anywhere. If you buy your own, you only have 2 options, either get a cheap rubbish car you don't care about or be careful and never ever park in a big city center on the street, any multi story carparks, supermarkets, any disco/party/pub area's, stations, etc...

With leasing you can get a nice car you care about, but at the same time park it anywhere as it's not your problem if it gets damaged.
 
snowdog said:
Hmmm having only read the first couple of posts, this thread has shown that leasing might be something for me.

Do you have to pay for the repairs on a lease car if someone dents/damages/scratches it and runs off ? If not, then I'm seriously considering leasing a car in the future. That way you can have a nice car, and not have to worry about leaving it anywhere. If you buy your own, you only have 2 options, either get a cheap rubbish car you don't care about or be careful and never ever park in a big city center on the street, any multi story carparks, supermarkets, any disco/party/pub area's, stations, etc...

With leasing you can get a nice car you care about, but at the same time park it anywhere as it's not your problem if it gets damaged.
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You or your insurance pay for any dents.
 
And now I should put my brain where my mouth is and cost an alternative. We'll ignore the Golf.

Before we start, a note on the valuations of this car at 3 years and 36,000 miles. The Scirocco has not been available for 3 years yet therefore nobody knows its value. But a 2008/58 plate with 24k on it is worth £15k trade. In another 18-22 months, we'll be pessemistic and estimate it will drop 4k over the course of this year, giving the car a value at 3.75 years old of £11,000.

Arnold Clark have a 1.4 TSI on a 59 plate with 4k on it. It is £17500. It is the better 160bhp variant the OP himself claims he cannot afford to buy. Also at the same money is a broker claiming to offer a BRAND NEW DELIVERY MILEAGE 122 variant of the 1.4 TSI for the same price. I cannot confirm whether they are correct, so I wont use them in my calculations, but just imagine if its legit, these figures below could be for a brand new car!

There are several ways you could chose to finance this vehicle without leasing assuming you wish to own it for 3 years. Both methods assume you have a £2500 deposit. Because in my opinion if you don't have at least £2500 in savings or something kicking around then really you have bigger problems than worrying about buying a new car.

Method 1: A 5 year bank loan.

Deposit: £2500
Borrowed: £15,000 over 5 years a 7.9% APR.

Cost per month: £303

You've spotted the first caveat here - at month 36, you still owe money on the car. This is fine - I'm just using a 5 year term to reduce the monthly payments on the car. This option is as close as I can make it to the way your current deal will work - ie the end position is at the end of the 3 years you have no car and you owe no money.

Total cost of finance: £18205
Deposit: £2500
GAP insurance: £100

LESS:
Value of the car after 36 months (trade): £11,000

TOTAL COST OF THIS OPTION OVER 36 MONTHS: £9805 (or 272 a month for 3 years).

OPTION 2:

A 3 year bank loan. The best way to buy this sort of car, in my opinion, but obviously it introduces the first problem to people buying new cars who are not exactly minted: The monthly cost is higher. But here we go..

Cost of car: £17500

Deposit: £2500
Borrowed over 36 months: £15000
Interest over 36 months: £1896

Monthly cost: £469

Ok, total cost of 36 month time!

Deposit: £2500
Cost of finance: £16896
GAP insurance: £100

LESS

Value of car at 36 months: £11k

TOTAL COST OF THIS OPTION: £8496.

Look how much cheaper it is! And the best bit? If after 36 months you decide to do nothing - ie stay as you are... you stop paying anything per month, you need to find NO money to pay a GFV.. you simply own a 3.75 year old Scirocco, outright!
 
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snowdog said:
Do you have to pay for the repairs on a lease car if someone dents/damages/scratches it and runs off ?
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Of course you do. You must return the car in excellent condition or you will receive a bill from the lease company for fixing everything.

With leasing you can get a nice car you care about, but at the same time park it anywhere as it's not your problem if it gets damaged.
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It absolutely IS your problem if it gets damaged!
 
[TW]Fox;16959431 said:
Of course you do. You must return the car in excellent condition or you will receive a bill from the lease company for fixing everything.



It absolutely IS your problem if it gets damaged!
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Well, then I see no advantages at all to lease a car.

I have had no clue about leasing cars but assumed that because it's not your car, it's not your problem if a third party does something to it.
 
[TW]Fox;16959409 said:
And now I should put my brain where my mouth is and cost an alternative
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Post 'LOL WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY HA HA' = 10 replies in 10 minutes

Spend 25 minutes working out figures posting a polite reply = nobody cares

And there we have it :p
 
Biohazard said:
(without taking into consideration that in reality, no one actually owns their vehicle at all. :p They are legally only the registered keepers as far as the state is concerned, the state owns our cars. ;) the money involved in buying is irrelevent to the legal standing)
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That isn't correct, if you have paid for the item it is yours, not the state. You can also be the owner but not the registered keeper, or be the registered keeper and not the owner.

A girl I work with gets excellent lease rates with Toyota because her mother works for them. But they incredibly harsh about any damage, she had to have a complete replacement bumper for her 2 year old Yaris due to a 2" split in the centre of it.
Their idea of "reasonable wear" rarely matches anybody elses idea of what constitutes reasonable wear.
 
[TW]Fox;16959409 said:
some good alternate examples
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And as comparison, here's the PCP equivalent from 2 mins googling

Taking a 122 BHP 1.4 TSi, and adjusting the deposit to give exactly £15K of PCP on it.. this still gives identically comparable financial terms.. and only £400 away on the car price.
£17500 for the car,
£2500 deposit
This gives
£277 * 34 + £452 * 1
£8585 Final payment
10.9% APR

Assuming £100 Gap, and the same £11K residual,

= ~£10,000 Spent over 3 years.. just £195 more then the 5 year loan arrangement..

This isn't some grand argument or crazy notion that PCP is 'ace' or better, or in fact anything other then expensive..

It's just to show that PCP isn't a million miles worse then any other 'cheaper monthly payment method'..

All of these examples show how expensive a new car is, £8.5K best case, £10k worse case for the same scenario over 3 years in actual 'wasted' money..

Althouigh I'd never do it, and advise against unless fully aware, if the trade off for wasting an extra £1500 is a relatively lower (by £190-£200) monthly payment, which will either make it affordable in the first place, or £200 is a lot of monthly 'entertainment', I can see why some might do this.




And in a shocking revelation, I actually talked a colleague out of PCPing a new Z4 3.0si 18 months ago, showing him the equivalent monthlies got him £15k of finance over the same term, enough to get an mint 03 Z4 3.0 second hand with sat-nav.. I even sorted him out the cheapest APR sources, and went with him to see the car etc....
So I'm not some new car loving blinded fool, that's just a clever persona I like to put on at times.. :)
 
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That is not the deal he's impulse-signed up to though, is it?

And you've assumed £100 gap in your PCP example when we KNOW he has paid more for it!
 
[TW]Fox;16960055 said:
That is not the deal he's impulse-signed up to though, is it?

And you've assumed £100 gap in your PCP example when we KNOW he has paid more for it!
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I'm not trying to prove some weird point here, other then PCP isn't as evil as people think..

I obviously used your car scenario, or else it wouldn't be a valid comparison in 3/5 year loans and PCP..

the OP had a raft of extra's and was spending considerably more, and to be honest, if he paid £300 GAP (not sure, how much he paid?) compared to the massive 'cost' of the deal over 3 years, £200 more is piffling..

[edit] he is paying £5 per month for gap, £180 over 3 years.. obviously nearly double the amount you can get it for is steep, but dang, compared to the many thousands lost in depreciation, your going to argue over that? :D (and *cough* I believe you stated he's been ripped off by the dealer becuase it'll be 4 times more expensive :))


So, going out on a limb here, I think are we safe to say PCP isn't horrifically worse then normalish financing methods? and that if you want lower payments whether by PCP or long term loan, after the 3 years, they are remarkably similar (if I've done my research right)..

This leaves us with the obvious point that new cars are huge money pits.. :D
 
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i like these threads, and I agree with Fox in the most part.

Difference is I'd charge you for advise like that, he gives it away for free. You should thank him.
 
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