**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****

To be successful in a battle with protoss requires good micro. Force Fields, storms, feedback, Collosi placement, blink etc.

MMM not as much. All you have to worry about is stim timing and placement of medivacs really.
 
Nerusy said:
Toss is the easiest once you start and after you know what you're doing, especially after you know what you're doing.
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If that was the case then these statistics wouldn't be true (since release):

Tournament wins by race

Terran - 51

Protoss - 22

Zerg - 4


Tournament winners by race

Terran - 22

Protoss - 12

Zerg- 2
 
LiE said:
To be successful in a battle with protoss requires good micro. Force Fields, storms, feedback, Collosi placement, blink etc.

MMM not as much. All you have to worry about is stim timing and placement of medivacs really.
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You need to have good micro with your mm to be honest.

Thing is if your opponent has good control with them, and has all the infantry upgrades + medivacs, you're in trouble unless you have aoe. And if he adds ghosts to the mix, then it's really a cointoss to see if the feedback gets off before the emp.

The only saving grace is that if you kill a big blob of terran infantry it can take some time for them to rebuild it. At least compared to protoss/zerg.

But it's very hard to kill them all dead against a good player. Once you get colossi/storm good players then start shift queueing drops on you. And when just 6 marauders stimmed and a single medivac can drop a nexus faster than you can kill the rauders, you're in trouble.

But cool today showed how you deal fruit to Terran :)
 
Why statistics wouldn't be true, seems right to me.

Lie, every race needs to micro. lets take pvt, terran has to micro mmm thats run and gun and ghosts. toss has to storm and forcefield. Trying run and gun and if you mess up or stim at wrong time all your army falls to a strom.

recent game I had, toss rolled in with his usual ball and 2 collosi I had my mmm and ghosts, now all he did was press a and then press it on the ground near me, thats all micro he did. I did a mismicro all my army fell in a second, what I should have done is set marines on his ball, rauders on collosi with stim and ghosts to emp all this army.

Now what is easier press a on the ground or do everything that I had to do?
 
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Protoss has way more battle micro to manage than terran: ff, shield, storm, feedback and the better players will probably start manually using charge if they dont already.

Protoss actually has the most intense micro of all races imo.

I dont think saying protoss macro is more forgiving than terran is right either, missing a cycle of your warpgates is just as damaging as forgetting to que new rax units. In addition macroing (gateway units) while microing is impossible for protoss unless you are fighting right on top of a pylon.
 
Robhu, hardest micro - zerg very punishing for a mistake

Then terran and only then toss.

kar why do you always say 6 rauders, 4 rauders fit in a medvak, 2 medveks needed for 6 rauders, surely you'd take 8 rauders to take out the nexus faster and then evac. and during that main army would be still missing 6-8rauders which should give you army advantage.

I do take out nexuses only because the toss players I play are bad, the good ones scout out where the drop ships are going. Basically its hard and practically throwing units away doing a nexus drop on a good toss player
 
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Nerusy said:
Why statistics wouldn't be true, seems right to me.
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If protoss was easier for skilled players then wouldn't they be winning more tournaments?

Nerusy said:
Robhu, hardest micro - zerg very punishing for a mistake

Then terran and only then toss.
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Why is protoss macro easier than terrans?

It's not like warpgates don't have a cooldown. You can't instantly warp in units whenever you can afford them lol. If you miss a warp cycle you're going to be behind, just as much as if you forget to queue up barracks units.
 
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Easier race seems appealing for worse players.

Now I've just had enough of toss elitism that terran is easy and all that crap, I am just showing you guys that I can say the same stuff about toss. What I really think is they're about the same but I still retain for a beginner toss would be easier to be introduced to the game.

Now we can all agreer that zerg requires a lot more micro and macro and a very punishing race for mistakes but for that you do receive advantages.
 
Nerusy said:
Robhu, hardest micro - zerg very punishing for a mistake

Then terran and only then toss.

kar why do you always say 6 rauders, 4 rauders fit in a medvak, 2 medveks needed for 6 rauders, surely you'd take 8 rauders to take out the nexus faster and then evac. and during that main army would be still missing 6-8rauders which should give you army advantage.

I do take out nexuses only because the toss players I play are bad, the good ones scout out where the drop ships are going. Basically its hard and practically throwing units away doing a nexus drop on a good toss player
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I say 6 because of the timings. There's been a few games in the gsl where either 6 marauders stim charge into a base, and level a nexus before the protoss player can engage, or there's a couple of medivacs with 6 marauders.

It seems to be the optimum number. Just add in a few marines for probe kills.

The drops are most potent when in the mid, mid-late game where the protoss player is on three bases, you just shift queue click 3 drops on all three nexii and you forget about them until they drop. The opposing player can't react to all of that very easily and with the devastation stimmed marauders can wreak on buildings, they are going to lose something. This requires all of about 10 apm on the part of the attacking player.
 
Nerusy said:
Easier race seems appealing for worse players.

Now I've just had enough of toss elitism that terran is easy and all that crap, I am just showing you guys that I can say the same stuff about toss. What I really think is they're about the same but I still retain for a beginner toss would be easier to be introduced to the game.

Now we can all agreer that zerg requires a lot more micro and macro and a very punishing race for mistakes but for that you do receive advantages.
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I agree that toss is easier for new players. But switching to terran wouldn't be a bad idea if they want to get to the top of their diamond division. Everyone says terran is easy (this isn't toss elitism, it's zerg and a lot of terrans saying this) because honestly, terran can beat anybody with marines, marauders, medivacs and vikings. This isn't even an exaggeration, I've just watched SjoW beat HuK 2 minutes ago with maruaders and vikings, with 1 or 2 medivacs and a handful of marines. It's the other races that have to jump through hoops to beat this very basic unit composition, consisting of low tier and incredibly cheap units.
 
Nerusy said:
Robhu, hardest micro - zerg very punishing for a mistake

Then terran and only then toss.

kar why do you always say 6 rauders, 4 rauders fit in a medvak, 2 medveks needed for 6 rauders, surely you'd take 8 rauders to take out the nexus faster and then evac. and during that main army would be still missing 6-8rauders which should give you army advantage.

I do take out nexuses only because the toss players I play are bad, the good ones scout out where the drop ships are going. Basically its hard and practically throwing units away doing a nexus drop on a good toss player
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Every race is very unforgiving if you make micro mistakes....obviously. I really dont get your logic saying terran micro is harder when only 1 (and in some cases 2) spells need to be cast, followed by right clicking and pressing either hold, stop or attack move. Feedbacking ghosts and spreading HTs is also way harder than emping in the correct direction, especially since even if you miss the HTs then as long as you hit units you will do huge damage.

And seriously if you think drops are easy for a good protoss to defend then you obv dont watch many good players, shift queuing 3 simultaneous drops is far easier than scouting each drop and intercepting them before they can do damage :/.
 
RobHu said:
Protoss has way more battle micro to manage than terran: ff, shield, storm, feedback and the better players will probably start manually using charge if they dont already.

Protoss actually has the most intense micro of all races imo.

I dont think saying protoss macro is more forgiving than terran is right either, missing a cycle of your warpgates is just as damaging as forgetting to que new rax units. In addition macroing (gateway units) while microing is impossible for protoss unless you are fighting right on top of a pylon.
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It's quite tough, you need to hotkey a battle pylon, double press its hotkey, press w, hold shift spam whatever units you want, ctrl click them, right click on the battle so they rally there, then you have to double click on your your main warpgate bank hotkey, press your nexus hot key, spam any chrono you have on your warp gates, then, finally you can go back to your battle.

*Edit* 'tough' is a relative term, sc1... *That* was tough to macro while microing. Which is all but the top players simply didn't bother microing much.
 
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A lot of terrans that play toss say toss is much easier. frankly Scott that goes for toss too, I meet so many awful toss players just terrible around 30 apm mark in diamond.

Its just as easy to get into diamond as toss as it is with terran.

And sadly that is toss elitism what you just said.
 
RobHu said:
Every race is very unforgiving if you make micro mistakes....obviously. I really dont get your logic saying terran micro is harder when only 1 (and in some cases 2) spells need to be cast, followed by right clicking and pressing either hold, stop or attack move. Feedbacking ghosts and spreading HTs is also way harder than emping in the correct direction, especially since even if you miss the HTs then as long as you hit units you will do huge damage.

And seriously if you think drops are easy for a good protoss to defend then you obv dont watch many good players, shift queuing 3 simultaneous drops is far easier than scouting each drop and intercepting them before they can do damage :/.
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Oh yeah you try microing terran in diamond league then come here and tell me how wrong you were
 
Call it elitism if you want, but I will be very surprised if anyone argues that toss and zerg need to jump through hoops to beat terran bio, and in zerg's case terran mech.
 
I have friends that can play terran at 1200++ diamond level. They agree with me.

edit: i actually feel like pvt is pretty balanced overall, at the moment generally t>p early and mid game, and p>t late game. The key is stopping multiple drops by occupying your opponent with aggression of your own.
 
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