**** Original Starcraft 2 Thread ****

iamtheoneneo said:
latest patch notes are up:

looks like the warpgate timing rumours were true. No marine nerf takes the biscuit though.
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Interesting. Not at all sure why the warp gate timing needed to be brought up like that.

The only matchup it may really affect is PvP. Might make robo-based openings more viable. I'm interested in the build time decrease on gateway units as well. Will make very early aggression a bit more viable in PvT and help take on the likes of 6 pools.

I wonder where the massive business on Archons is coming from....Forcefields? :eek: If archons can trample forcefields, then that's kinda awesome :D. Still think PvP will be a colossusfest though, there's no two ways about it. :(

Good changes on Terran and Zerg. Spore crawler mobility can be a bit of a problem as it is and gas cost on Ghosts was a bit prohibitive. Dont think any terran can complain about ghosts now :D (i can haz HT amulet back now plz?)

And yea I'm not sure why marines need a nerf :p
 
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nex20 said:
Why do marines need a nerf?

To be fair, 4gates are easy to stop, there are so many tells that they are doing it. But im still happy I don't have to worry about it on ladder :). I think the balance changes are good, the bunker one is nice, but it wont stop 2rax. oh well.
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Generally I'm happy when I see a 4gate on ladder. Usually means an easy win with any race :p
 
Wow that patch seems to be a bit of a nerf on protoss... Increasing warp gate time fair enough but making ghosts cheaper... Ghosts absolutely ruin protoss armies. Marines are a problem as protoss doesn't have any units which are really good against them until collossus.
 
ordinaryjoe said:
Wow that patch seems to be a bit of a nerf on protoss... Increasing warp gate time fair enough but making ghosts cheaper... Ghosts absolutely ruin protoss armies. Marines are a problem as protoss doesn't have any units which are really good against them until collossus.
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You might be surprised how well gateway units handle themselves against marines. Early game (pre-stim), well micro'd stalker/sentry/zealot can do really well against marines (although a super-early 3rax all in can be tough to hold off). Add in a +1 armour upgrade with guardian shield and gateway units become pretty scary if you only have marines..

Although the super-early all in should be a bit easier to hold now that gateway build times are down :) look forward to testing that out..
 
The only issue I see with marines is how well they scale with upgrades and stim, very few units that are as versatile and cheap scale that well in the game and for them to be a T1 unit that can get a little overwhelming.
 
Fenris said:
The only issue I see with marines is how well they scale with upgrades and stim, very few units that are as versatile and cheap scale that well in the game and for them to be a T1 unit that can get a little overwhelming.
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Aye... I remember seeing a replay of a high level match where a terran went pure marine against a protoss using mainly chargelots and high templar and won... That to me is completely ridiculous... Tier 1 units beating a doubly upgraded tech 3 vespene heavy unit which is made to directly counter it with another unit which upgraded is meant to counter it? That is completely absurd to me. It's quite a famous replay, and people commented that the terran won because he played well, but the protoss also played well, and to be honest, using only 1 unit against 2 of it's 3 strong counters shouldn't ever win against a competent enemy... Imagine if massing purely stalkers could kill concussive shell maurauders and thors? (And stalkers are higher tech than marines as well)

edit: Also, to add to the ridiculousness of this situation, this was before Kardyran Amulet was removed.
 
ordinaryjoe said:
Aye... I remember seeing a replay of a high level match where a terran went pure marine against a protoss using mainly chargelots and high templar and won... That to me is completely ridiculous... Tier 1 units beating a doubly upgraded tech 3 vespene heavy unit which is made to directly counter it with another unit which upgraded is meant to counter it? That is completely absurd to me. It's quite a famous replay, and people commented that the terran won because he played well, but the protoss also played well, and to be honest, using only 1 unit against 2 of it's 3 strong counters shouldn't ever win against a competent enemy... Imagine if massing purely stalkers could kill concussive shell maurauders and thors? (And stalkers are higher tech than marines as well)

edit: Also, to add to the ridiculousness of this situation, this was before Kardyran Amulet was removed.
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Is this that IntoTheRainbow vs Prince game? (seen in day9 daily #264)
 
4 gate robo != 4 gate lol :P. You should never go 4 gate robo really, there is no way you can produce from 4 gates and a robo off 1 base. Might be an exception in pvp if you start out with a defensive 4 gate and add your robo after stopping your opponents 4 gate.
 
Well most people below high gold often miss production cycles so 4gate robo combats this problem by letting you catch up quicker when you forget :) Really, even a 4gate isn't sustainable unless if you are constantly losing your units... maybe if you completely saturate your natural and don't get many stalkers you might just about manage but need for pylons effectively add 25 minerals to any units you buy (unless if you are just replacing lost units)
 
The whole point of a 4 gate is to end the game off of 1 base, against a decent opponent unless you do serious damage you have almost certainly lost. It's main strength is that your reinforcements have no travel time, hence adding the robo is pointless and delays your attack way too much.
 
ordinaryjoe said:
Yeah that's the one
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hmm. Yea there was a lot more to that game than 'he got marines, upgraded them and won!'. A very successful counterattack play from intotherainbow allowed him to pull himself very far ahead in economy in the midgame. Interestingly, the strength of the protoss army actually kept him in the game for a very long time (it's templar vs marines ffs :p), but eventually intotherainbow knew he needed more than just marines to win. The combination with ghosts and marauders, given the state at the time of the protoss player, allowed the terran to finish off his opponent.

It doesnt necessarily say that much about the unit itself, more that the terran played an excellent, unique, consistently aggressive game and executed it incredibly well.

Never thought i'd say this before rerolling random, but..in my view, marines pretty much perfectly balanced.
 
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RobHu said:
The whole point of a 4 gate is to end the game off of 1 base, against a decent opponent unless you do serious damage you have almost certainly lost. It's main strength is that your reinforcements have no travel time, hence adding the robo is pointless and delays your attack way too much.
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What about in PvP where the enemy 4gates to attack you? And seeing as we aren't talking about high level players, if you don't donate your whole army, you can still come back from a 4gate
 
Shayper said:
Is it bad that I have won 5 1v1's on the bounce this morning already? Damn project, I'm terrified...
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Nope... I find my ability tends to take steps rather than a gradual slope... At one point I won something like 20 out of 25 games in a row in 1v1... Just be aware, once the streak ends, the people you will be against will be far far better and you may start losing a lot more than you are winning for a bit :)
 
ordinaryjoe said:
Nope... I find my ability tends to take steps rather than a gradual slope... At one point I won something like 20 out of 25 games in a row in 1v1... Just be aware, once the streak ends, the people you will be against will be far far better and you may start losing a lot more than you are winning for a bit :)
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Ah, but by that time you are on the edge of promotion, so it's all good :)
 
just got sc2 went straight into practic games, playing zerg won 1 lost 2 all vs terran :P

think im gonna play all of the practice games lol :P

atm trying 2 strats zergling/banelings (mainly cause i can sing husky's "banelings banelings banelings" song to myself as i play ofc :p )

and mass roach :P into sneaky nuydus worm haha

first impressions fun game, not sure what to do when i got tonnes of minerals, maybe get some upgrades or expand or something guess

1 of my practice games did go to like nearly 20mins... terran with tanks, me with zerglings /scary hehe

i now what i'll be doing during the royal wedding :P

just watched day9 funday monday,mass queen video LOL gotta try that next game hehe
 
5 win in a row 6 wins 2 losses :P 8 games(vs 6 terran, 1 zer, 1 toss)
im not really good with early agression get to about 150 supply and wipe them out :P

did have 1 game last 45 mins lol zerg vs zerg in the i had end mass muta + few ultralisks vs tonnes of zerglings and hydra, pretty epic 200(me) vs 120ish fight in middle hehe
 
Any Plat / Diamond level P or Z fancy some practise games vs Zerg. I'm pushing for masters and reallly need to brush up on these MUs. Zero 990 is my account.

Cheers!
 
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