P & O Ferries

dLockers said:
One of the quoted failures was safety documentation. Another was the poor provision of training.
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It was actually:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60908750
"failures on crew familiarisation, vessel documentation and crew training".
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Crew familiarisation is definitely not down to the outgoing crew.

Crew training is definitely not down to the outgoing crew.

Vessel documentation is ambiguous. That could be either the outgoing or new incoming crew.
 
What happened to the 'these (below minimum wage, agency) crew are highly experienced' cobblers that P & O were coming out with...
 
I work as a seafarer, and I have to carry a bulging folder of safety training certificates with me when I join a vessel in order to comply with SOLAS and STCW regulations. It could well be that the crew hired by P&O through an agency (who also managed my training when I was a cadet on behalf of the shipping company that sponsored me, and who demonstrated ample incompetence during that time) turned up to the ship without the correct documentation.
 
Hades said:
Vessel documentation is ambiguous. That could be either the outgoing or new incoming crew.
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That would be up to the company to ensure it is all in order. The Master should oversee this area and ensure all those working onboard have the relevant certificates as The Funktopus points out.

I work for the MCA in survey and inspection and I might have a look at the reports when I'm back in. Been off since this started.
 
Bickaxe said:
That would be up to the company to ensure it is all in order. The Master should oversee this area and ensure all those working onboard have the relevant certificates as The Funktopus points out.

I work for the MCA in survey and inspection and I might have a look at the reports when I'm back in. Been off since this started.
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Thanks for clarifying.
 
The Funktopus said:
I work as a seafarer, and I have to carry a bulging folder of safety training certificates with me when I join a vessel in order to comply with SOLAS and STCW regulations. It could well be that the crew hired by P&O through an agency (who also managed my training when I was a cadet on behalf of the shipping company that sponsored me, and who demonstrated ample incompetence during that time) turned up to the ship without the correct documentation.
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Thanks
 
Having been involved in audits all my career both financial and non i suspect the vessel documentation will be mainly inability to prove, which is what normally happens when someone new(ish) to a role is asked for something
Since all the people being asked right now to provide things are brand new they probably don't know where everything is, or who to ask for it.
An independent auditor would have to log these as "missing" (or word to that effect) since they cannot be demonstrated.
Some will be standard, some will be ship specific and as such I would bet all the specific stuff may have "gone missing" during the stand off for some ships.

A good real world example is many businesses struggle when asked for the insurance certificate. The vast majority of the time the person being asked doesn't have it.
Its usually with the accountant, company secretary, business owner etc depending on the organisation.
 
Were the P and O workers only getting minimum wage prior?
I see the government say they're going to force P and O to reinstate the workers on minimum wage.
 
Martini1991 said:
Were the P and O workers only getting minimum wage prior?
I see the government say they're going to force P and O to reinstate the workers on minimum wage.
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The government want them reinstated on their old wages, which was apparently £36k for 24 weeks work but P & O aren't keen for some reason.
 
Uther said:
The government want them reinstated on their old wages, which was apparently £36k for 24 weeks work but P & O aren't keen for some reason.
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24 weeks work doesn't sound much when you put it like that, but at the same time I suspect it's fairly well qualified work, not straight 8 hour shifts 9-5, and can involve a lot of time away from home.
A better metric would be hours on the ship (IE you spend 16 hours on the ship, even if you're "resting" for 8 of those it's 16 hours on the job), how many hours were "unsociable" and how many were "bank holiday" etc.

I suspect once that's taken into account the hourly rate will not look quite so high, as 24 weeks of 12-16 hour "days" is the equivalent of a lot of jobs where you are at work for 48 weeks a year.
 
24 weeks is working time. They spend the other 24 weeks on shift ( 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off) usually on board but not working (hence the comment that the ship is their home). The other 4 weeks is holiday.
So 48 weeks for £36k a year once you are fully qualified.
The STCW courses are but usually paid by the individual and will cost around £4000 before they even find employment. The agency workers would have had to do the same. If they are foreign and deck officers, they have to pass a UKLAP exam as well as deck orals and that can cost quite a bit over the course of several years.
 
chrcoluk said:
I take it the CEO who openly admitted to breaking the law has still not been arrested?
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unlawful and illegal are 2 different things. He broke employment laws - but it is not a criminal offence. The only law he broke was failure to consult; instead the staff are being offered more than the legal minimum in compensation. Is it wrong? Yes it is - but other than the government punitively punishing them by stopping the ships sailing, i dont think there is much they can actually do. Thats what you get for making it easier to sack workers.
 
What’s infuriating about these cancellations is the lack of consumer protection. I’m meant to be sailing to Northern Ireland a week on Friday. They haven’t had sailings for weeks. I’m told they’ll restart on Tuesday but at less than 50% of capacity.
So it’s certain that some people will be cancelled. However, they won’t tell me if I’ve been cancelled until “the day of or the day before” the sailing. I can hardly make alternative travel arrangements if they cancel on the day.
My issue around consumer protection is that they also won’t refund my tickets. I can cancel them, but they then don’t need to give me a refund. Surely if a business knows it will cancel at least 50% of tickets it should be made to waive cancellation fees for those who wish to cancel.

If it’s cancelled on the day before, I’ll be able to book a flight (at a cost of ~£600 for three of us). I won’t be able to do that if they do it on the day. Sigh.

I wonder if I could contest it on my credit card, but doubt I’ll get the money back (I doubt it’d be successful anyway) in time so a bit catch 22.
 
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