P2P Investing

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 10 Jun 2016 at 10:06

So a mini update one day on, found some more data is available on Zopa its just not logical on how you get to it. So you can see more of the stats compared to RS, although RS make them more obvious, I get the suspicion Zopa need to put them there as part of their commitment to P2P association

I have now got £30 lent out its definately slow going.
My net average is 3.4% but its based on a small sample. However thats got highly varying rates included and quite long terms.

Gut feel is still towards Ratesetter being the better lending platform
One comment on Ratesetter is their excess in the provision fund is falling, whilst that could be expected when growing quickly it could also be hiding a switch to higher risk loansbeing given, or people deliberately getting loans before enter IVAs etc, can only trust ratesetters staff to keep doing the right thing

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 10 Jun 2016 at 10:16

Oh one other observation on Zopa vs ratesetter is the difference in the lending methodology

ratesetter queues work as follows :

Each product (4 available) have their own queues that function individually, and within each one the rate being offered is the first differentiator, then the date it was applied. You can see you place in the queue exactly if you have money waiting to loan.
Reinvested capital has no priority it just slots into the queue based on the same rules as new money.

Zopa is different
Clicking on the “To be lent” info button by each product on your Lending Summary shows you the daily disbursal rate for that product, along with how much is in the queue overall. So a lot less detail than ratesetter (general principle seems to apply here as well)
Only new money goes into the queue. Your repayments, if you have relending switched on, are recycled back into the system and matched to borrowers ahead of new money.
So there is loyalty to existing people before new lenders/new money
New money is queued per the date it was funded into Zopa – there’s no product prioritisation. So its all in one pot it would seem, but 2 of the 3 products only lend A-C graded borrowers, so by default any loans outside this will have to skip some in the queue as they are not available to lend against that loan.

Uther · 10 Jun 2016 at 10:26

I much prefer RS over Zopa. TBH I'm not too impressed with the rates currently, I've made more money withdrawing some monthly cash from RS and match betting with it!

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 10 Jun 2016 at 12:43

Uther said:
I much prefer RS over Zopa. TBH I'm not too impressed with the rates currently, I've made more money withdrawing some monthly cash from RS and match betting with it!

Not so sure that matched betting is the best investment strategy for most lol

beh · 12 Jun 2016 at 01:18

Good article/interview on Property Partner - http://www.altfi.com/article/2022_i...ew_with_property_partner_boss_daniel_gandesha

bingham67 · 12 Jun 2016 at 01:50

MaX_PoWah said:
Property partner have started doing monthly savings now with the minimum been £50 a month.

This is good news for investors and the platform but because the only option with your monthly savings is to auto invest in the current months properties it could lead to a bit of an eclectic mix of investments and a lack of conviction.

I would have liked to have invested based on yield or theme at least with the auto invest searching shares for sale as well as new shares...

I was looking into taxes with Property Partner and it seems you dont have to declare anything with what I could gather £11,100 you can make per year in dividends before tax.

Im on basic tax rate so reading there website It does not give much away about taxes but was confused If i need to declare anything.

Bear · 12 Jun 2016 at 06:22

bingham67 said:
I was looking into taxes with Property Partner and it seems you dont have to declare anything with what I could gather £11,100 you can make per year in dividends before tax.

Im on basic tax rate so reading there website It does not give much away about taxes but was confused If i need to declare anything.

Dividends are taxable after £5k at 7.5% as you have a £5k dividend allowance tax free, unless you have any unused tax free allowance which I doubt if you are working.

The £11.1k you speak of is your allowance on capital gains tax, so if you decide to get rid of your stake in a property and you made over £11.1k in profit, the capital gains will be payable after that amount at 18%

You will have to declare it on your tax return as it is earned income.

bingham67 · 12 Jun 2016 at 11:37

Bear said:
Dividends are taxable after £5k at 7.5% as you have a £5k dividend allowance tax free, unless you have any unused tax free allowance which I doubt if you are working.

The £11.1k you speak of is your allowance on capital gains tax, so if you decide to get rid of your stake in a property and you made over £11.1k in profit, the capital gains will be payable after that amount at 18%

You will have to declare it on your tax return as it is earned income.

Thanks but declare it now or when I go over the limits?

Bear · 12 Jun 2016 at 12:25

bingham67 said:
Thanks but declare it now or when I go over the limits?

You put it on your tax return, if done online it has to be done before the end of January. You should get a tax statement (you do on rate setter) so it's easy to fill in.

bingham67 · 12 Jun 2016 at 12:43

Bear said:
You put it on your tax return, if done online it has to be done before the end of January. You should get a tax statement (you do on rate setter) so it's easy to fill in.

You do with Property Partner so this needs to be done every January?

Its very confusing as you get an allowance with Rate setter and people are saying you dont have to declare it in this thread.

And now with Property Partner you get a £5,000 tax free but you have to declare it?

beh · 12 Jun 2016 at 13:32

For the dividend allowance, you don't need to declare anything if it's <£5k - https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-dividends/how-dividends-are-taxed

bingham67 · 12 Jun 2016 at 13:57

beh said:
For the dividend allowance, you don't need to declare anything if it's <£5k - https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-dividends/how-dividends-are-taxed

Thanks this is what I was trying to get the answer to I am only earning 50p a month so far in dividends

Also how comes on Property Partner all the properties I can see since I logged on this week is one property for pre order :confused:

beh · 12 Jun 2016 at 14:09

They seem to only have one new property every week or so, with the current number of users I don't think they could sustain more than that.

For existing properties you can easily buy shares on the secondary market, just pay attention to the premium/discount. A good example would be this property which has a few shares trading at >10% discount on valuation https://propertypartner.co/properties/UKTN355ED001?p=prop25

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 13 Jun 2016 at 13:37

So my £200 finally got fully lent on Zopa

Well to say I am less than impressed, almost half is out on 5 year loans at about 1.3%
Seriously?
So I am certain they wont be getting any more of my money, the experiment whilst too small scale to statistically be relevant showed me the vast disaprity in loans they are writing, and with no ability to restrict how long its lent for i'm out

beh · 13 Jun 2016 at 13:42

So what was the average rate you achieved? Access/Classic/Plus?

peterwalkley · 13 Jun 2016 at 13:49

I set up an account with ratesetter over the weekend and following advice in the thread was very careful with my settings - basically don't let it automatically roll over anything and I choose the rate I'll accept.

The £1000 I put in has just been lent at 2.9% rolling for a month, so I guess I watch how that goes. There seemed to be a lot of money clustered in the queue at a bit higher than that and watching the matched rate yesterday and a bit this morning, there were obviously people or bots jumping in at lower rates, so I guess its a trade-off between accepting a lower rate or waiting to loan out the money.

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 13 Jun 2016 at 13:56

beh said:
So what was the average rate you achieved? Access/Classic/Plus?

Average was 3% on Access

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 13 Jun 2016 at 13:59

peterwalkley said:
I set up an account with ratesetter over the weekend and following advice in the thread was very careful with my settings - basically don't let it automatically roll over anything and I choose the rate I'll accept.

The £1000 I put in has just been lent at 2.9% rolling for a month, so I guess I watch how that goes. There seemed to be a lot of money clustered in the queue at a bit higher than that and watching the matched rate yesterday and a bit this morning, there were obviously people or bots jumping in at lower rates, so I guess its a trade-off between accepting a lower rate or waiting to loan out the money.

RS lent out at 3.3% on rolling today, although if you had joined that que late you would still be in the que

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 13 Jun 2016 at 14:03

Just a bit of advice on ratesetter.
The rolling loans don't expire on a weekend/bank hol, so what can happen is that money builds up over the weekend.
On the Monday some lending will unwind and be ready for rematching. This morning there was £5.5M to be borrowed at 2.4%. At lunchtime they clearly run a script that picks up the loans that have unwound and rematch them. Thats why it went to up 3.3%.

beh · 13 Jun 2016 at 14:07

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Average was 3% on Access

So only slightly below what you might have expected?

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
RS lent out at 3.3% on rolling today

I assume the rolling market roughly equates to Zopa Access?