P2P Investing

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

So only slightly below what you might have expected?

Yes as they advertise 3.5% thats quite a variation
I accept they can only go on history but I hadn't expected to see so many 5 year loans.
E.g 5 year loans on RS are just under 6% annual return.

I assume the rolling market roughly equates to Zopa Access?

No quite different. The RS rolling is only committed for 1 month.
So with RS you control the term and rate (within reason)
But if you mean the return you get then close, my average is 3.4 on RS although rates are a little lower right now I so expect that may drop for the next months returns to closer to 3.2%.

With ZOPA you control the market but then they can give a return thats not what they advertise and your stuck.

 

[beh]

Can you not effectively withdraw at any time from either Access/rolling and incur zero fees? Similar rate for a similar product that is.

Never really bothered to look at the RS site but the £100 bonus is an attractive offer.

I think you were right when you said your sample size for Zopa was probably too small.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Can you not effectively withdraw at any time from either Access/rolling and incur zero fees? Similar rate for a similar product that is.

Never really bothered to look at the RS site but the £100 bonus is an attractive offer.

I think you were right when you said your sample size for Zopa was probably too small.

I cancelled a RS rolling once as I had accepted a 3.1% rate last and predicted (correctly) that the rate would be more like 3.5 that day. When cancelling on RS the last match is the one cancelled.

In theory you can cancel the Zopa ones as well, but if I try I get a not allowed message, so not sure what needs to happen to allow it.

I lent £200, so 20 loans isn't going to be statistically robust, but there are a lot of loans going to A rated (between A* and A2) so these people seem to get very low rates and hence there arent enough B-C loans happening to balance the rate higher. Yes you could get "lucky" and get loads more C rated but you could equally get all A* rated lent out at 1.3% over 5 years.
Seems to be totally pot luck and with limited stats on Zopa its hard to see if your unlucky or typical.

 

[Stretch]

You need to understand fully what you're investing in though, as all the above are different. Zopa are unsecured loans, Saving Stream are secured on property and Money Thing are secured on other assets. Santander is just a bank account with conditions to meet.

Assuming all P2P is the same dangerously underestimates the underlying risks.

It does seem odd that Savings Steam are offering a [much] higher rate on a secured loan, that Zopa are offering on an unsecured loan.

The Savings Steam investments must be very risky.

 

[peterwalkley]

Just a bit of advice on ratesetter.
The rolling loans don't expire on a weekend/bank hol, so what can happen is that money builds up over the weekend.
On the Monday some lending will unwind and be ready for rematching. This morning there was £5.5M to be borrowed at 2.4%. At lunchtime they clearly run a script that picks up the loans that have unwound and rematch them. Thats why it went to up 3.3%.

Useful information, thank you. This is an experiment for me. The grand was earning naff all elsewhere. You know the market is messed up when current accounts (e.g. Santander 123) offer better interest rates than savings accounts !

 

[beh]

Seems to be totally pot luck and with limited stats on Zopa its hard to see if your unlucky or typical.

Over the last 4 weeks we have matched loans to lenders at an average rate of 3.71% in Zopa Access, 4.54% in Zopa Classic and 7.23% in Zopa Plus.

It's no surprise that you can be unlucky with a small sample. I find Zopa suitably transparent or at least I don't feel particularly mislead.

However, the gradual loss of control in the ~5 years I've been with Zopa is quite disappointing. RS does seem to offer better options/flexibility and the 5 year market looks very good.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

It's no surprise that you can be unlucky with a small sample. I find Zopa suitably transparent or at least I don't feel particularly mislead.

However, the gradual loss of control in the ~5 years I've been with Zopa is quite disappointing. RS does seem to offer better options/flexibility and the 5 year market looks very good.

yeah your right I don't think they set out to mislead I just think they are quite liberal in how they apply their comments.

I was thinking of their recommendation that you place £1k at a time and think its probably for a reason. In reality the deviation of what i achieved to what they list and even more so vs the rate you posted above is quite high.

So thinking about it, and the way the que works on Zopa I think you HAVE to place highish amounts to get a good rate.
This is due to the lending profile.
Looking at the loans I have, the highest rated people have the biggest loans, makes sense I suppose.
So think of the que, lots of people lined up ready to lend small amounts, a big loan goes a long way down the que with everyone handing over say £10.
Some people may drop out of the que as that was their last £10, but many wont. A lower grade borrower comes along and takes a relatively small loan, so not many people hand over £10, again a few may leave the que.
If this repeats over and over and the key point, if he que is quite long with big lenders at the front they will get a balanced return. but the smaller lenders won't, as they will write mainly big loans.
What will be interesting to see is of the recycled money (which gets priority) go out at a better rate, in theory as you jump closer to the start of the que with recycled you have more chance of getting a better rate for a higher risk loan.
Thats my theory anyway.
I will leave my money there to see how it reinvests for 6 months, but if it stays the same I will be pulling out.
For me the test of whether I should be setting up a Zopa or a RS ISA is quite clear, I far prefer the model on RS and think its more suited to someone who wants to put the time in to achieving good returns, Zopa probably suits those who just want to pick a market and deposit and allow it to reinvest unwatched.

 

[Diddums]

QUESTION TIME!

So Saving Stream seems to get decent reviews and looks like it could be a bit of fun for a few grand to see how it works out. I have some questions and I'm hoping someone here can offer some advice.

First off, what's this all about? I don't think it looks very good to have a default on the first page a potential investor would click on, anyone know what's going on here? Is this just cash down the pan for the investors?


EDIT:

More info here.

 

[Bear]

QUESTION TIME!

So Saving Stream seems to get decent reviews and looks like it could be a bit of fun for a few grand to see how it works out. I have some questions and I'm hoping someone here can offer some advice.

First off, what's this all about? I don't think it looks very good to have a default on the first page a potential investor would click on, anyone know what's going on here? Is this just cash down the pan for the investors?


EDIT:

More info here.

I haven't read the second link, but from what I can recall, all loans are secured against the property so if there is a default the property is sold and the monies recovered.

 

[snappyfish]

QUESTION TIME!

So Saving Stream seems to get decent reviews and looks like it could be a bit of fun for a few grand to see how it works out. I have some questions and I'm hoping someone here can offer some advice.

First off, what's this all about? I don't think it looks very good to have a default on the first page a potential investor would click on, anyone know what's going on here? Is this just cash down the pan for the investors?


EDIT:

More info here.

I suppose it's very transparent of them to leave it on the forum, You would not want them hiding the fact of say 10 defaulted loans.

I believe interest is still collected for investors even know but paid out on sale?

I have some money in that one Hopefully money is secured and when and if the sale goes through all will be OK

Good read here, with a poll.

http://p2pindependentforum.com/thread/5554/pbl-20-get-back

It has not stopped my investing in other loans on the forum, just in the last 1 week over 5 million was invested, not by me

 

[Chris1712]

Are there any P2P platforms with the new ISA set up yet? If it's not in an ISA and I don't already do a tax return (PAYE only) will I have to do one each year?

 

[Mulder]

^^ Would be interested to know that too.

Never done P2P but quite like the look of Saving Stream. Might wait to see whether creditors get everything back on the defaulted loan first though.

 

[beh]

Are there any P2P platforms with the new ISA set up yet? If it's not in an ISA and I don't already do a tax return (PAYE only) will I have to do one each year?

For most platforms intent on being part of the new IF ISA, it's still "coming soon". However, why bother? If you're not a higher rate tax payer you'd need close to £20k at ~5% to be over the new personal savings allowance which includes P2P lending.

You shouldn't need to do anything in the way of a tax return. Details are sketchy on how you'd pay tax on interest over the allowance but information seems to suggest they'd do it through PAYE somehow. "HMRC will normally collect the tax by changing your tax code. Banks and building societies will give HMRC the information they need to do this."

 

[Mulder]

Just put £1.5k into RateSetter at 3.7% for a year, with a £100 welcome bonus payable at the end. Not a bad overall return

Going to put a similar amount into Saving Stream and spread it out a bit across 3-4 different properties.

 

[MaX_PoWah]

Some decent discounts knocking about on property partners secondary market now. Been picking up shares in various properties at between 15% and 19% discount.

There are also shares on with no premium with a 5.25% yield

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

^^ Would be interested to know that too.

Never done P2P but quite like the look of Saving Stream. Might wait to see whether creditors get everything back on the defaulted loan first though.

There is one small P2P that has clearance, i forget which one it is.

Both RS and Zopa applied almost immediately (when announced they could offer in future) for full clearance thats needed in order to be able to offer an ISA.
From what I have seen both are on track and both hold similar views that it will probably take about a year, so somewhere around Oct for both of them.

I have moved further and further away from Zopa. So am actually withdrawing my limited cash and concentrating purely on RS. I like the control far more.

Rates have gone up a bit recently so I have a bit more on 3 and 5 year now.
Rolling has been a little low.

One thing I havent seen but have heard about is that if RS start to see liquidity drop a bit they can give bonuses to pull some more cash in for lending. I have noticed that in general the amount deposited ready for lending has dropped off a bit so its possible they may do an offer. Or it could be that it will jump up again at some point soon.

 

[daz]

Some decent discounts knocking about on property partners secondary market now. Been picking up shares in various properties at between 15% and 19% discount.

There are also shares on with no premium with a 5.25% yield

I'd imagine that's people getting some money out in anticipation of a large price drop or a general weakening in the market.

 

[MaX_PoWah]

How's everyone's investing going?

The discounts on property partner seem to have reduced a lot. Now down to less than 15% discount on most things. They have been releasing a new property every week for the last 4 weeks or so including some nice ones in Lincoln. The high yielding properties have mostly all moved to decent premiums due to the scramble for return now the base rate has gone down and most high street banks have reduced there interest rates on current accounts.

I've also been investing on property moose (even though there website doesn't work too well on chrome for iPad) and been buying the Worksop property (as I live near there) and the HMO's in shirebrook near sports direct haha (not sure if this makes me a bad person). The property partner stuff is good high quality stuff but it is reflected in the yield so went to completely the other end of the scale on property moose. They also have some student property on there.

I also keep putting money on funding circle... had a few loans paid off early including all the interest which was a nice bonus. I also enjoy reading about some of the businesses.

What other sites are are people using post brexit / post base rate reduction and how you getting on? Pros / cons?

Maybe not as relevant to this thread as the trading / stock market thread but I've been buying American equities for the last few years (which have done excellently as a result of brexit) but can't decide if it's time to get out.. already sold Ferrari but don't know if to sell Intel and Apple.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Personally still using ratesetter with slowly increasing balance.
Still extracting from ZOPA as I dont like the lack of flexibility on setting a minimum rate for myself.

ratesetter closed their 3 year market, so its rolling, 1 year fixed and 5 year repayment now, so having to switch my repayments from 3 and 5 into only 5 now. Luckily no large 3 years have been repaid, as I would probably not want to tie them into 5 years at this point.
I am achieving 3.2x approx on the rolling, 4.8% approx on the 3 year and 5.6% approx on the 5 year. Pretty happy with this TBH. Obviously pre tax.

 

[beh]

The discounts on property partner seem to have reduced a lot. Now down to less than 15% discount on most things. They have been releasing a new property every week for the last 4 weeks or so including some nice ones in Lincoln. The high yielding properties have mostly all moved to decent premiums due to the scramble for return now the base rate has gone down and most high street banks have reduced there interest rates on current accounts.

Aye, discounts not so widespread as a few months ago. Finding the bid engine to be quite useful, often people selling at low prices that you'd otherwise miss.

All the recent listings have been pretty decent and unsurprisingly oversubscribed. Hope they keep it going at this rate.

What other sites are are people using post brexit / post base rate reduction and how you getting on? Pros / cons?

Still mostly split between Zopa/RS.

Was tempted by Investly (UK) but doesn't seem to be much on offer, same for Abundance which seemed like a nice concept.