Panorama: Hooligans

BaZ87 · 3 Aug 2006 at 14:20

Im shocked at how some of you guys are defending what happened. Yes 99% of the fans over there were genuine supporters and the press do exaggerate what goes on, but there is still is that small minority that went over to Germany with the purpose of causing trouble.
As for the guys saying the English were just reacting to provocations, yes there were incidents of that but there was just as many incidents where the English were doing the provocating; the Brazilian fans, Tunisians, the Turk and after the Germany - Poland game.
Yes there is hooligan problems in other countries but that doesn't mean what we do is fine, what happens in other countries shouldn't be our concern, we should get our own house in order before we criticize others.

foz2000 · 3 Aug 2006 at 14:21

malc30 said:
Well at least we didn't stab him to death a, which is what a Galatasiri (SP?) supporter would have done to one of ours in the same situation.

What makes me laugh is that all the English were in one place having a drink and a laugh. Anyone that got abused odviously went to the area the English were congregated.
All the fights i saw were started by others and then the English steamed in.

All this ashamed to be English crap makes me sick. If you are ashamed then **** off out the country then.

Personally i am ashamed of our press and ashamed of the weak lilly livered wimps that jump on any sensationalist rubbish.
GROW YOUR OWN MINDS.

Very true, look at that columbian player that was murdered because it was his fault they went out! (think it was 1994), louis theroux(SP?) was talking to polish supporters b4 the world cup and they were saying they want to play england cuz then they can fight! no1 see that?

there are so many bad and good things that are wrong with every country,like so many ppl who look at the glass as half empty! cheer up crouch will bang some goals in for macca and win us the euro2010 (j/k)

Samtheman1k · 3 Aug 2006 at 14:26

BaZ87 said:
Im shocked at how some of you guys are defending what happened.

I don't think that anyone is DEFENDING what happened. They just want it put in perspective. A few thugs causing trouble doesn't mean that England is a nation of hooligans!

5ingh · 3 Aug 2006 at 14:34

Samtheman1k said:
I don't think that anyone is DEFENDING what happened. They just want it put in perspective. A few thugs causing trouble doesn't mean that England is a nation of hooligans!

Nobody has said that all England fans are hooligans, though. All fans are expected to behave well, not the opposite. Everyone wants to see all fans having fun together. Its a minority, yes - 99% of fans are great. Hopefully things will get better, because just imagine a black/asian fan heading over there and witnessing this for themselves.

Samtheman1k · 3 Aug 2006 at 14:56

5ingh said:
Nobody has said that all England fans are hooligans, though. All fans are expected to behave well, not the opposite. Everyone wants to see all fans having fun together. Its a minority, yes - 99% of fans are great. Hopefully things will get better, because just imagine a black/asian fan heading over there and witnessing this for themselves.

But there were many many black & asian English fans over there and 99.9999% had a great time. Why concentrate on this isolated incident?

The Running Man · 3 Aug 2006 at 15:14

because it isnt an isolated incident & if u ignore them they wont go away?

Samtheman1k · 3 Aug 2006 at 15:22

Nickg said:
because it isnt an isolated incident & if u ignore them they wont go away?

170,000 English fans go to Germany and there are a few hooligan related incidents? In the big scheme of things, it seems pretty isolated to me!

We ain't ignoring them as 3500 hooligans had their passports conviscated beforehand...

BaZ87 · 3 Aug 2006 at 15:29

Samtheman1k said:
We ain't ignoring them as 3500 hooligans had their passports conviscated beforehand...

And one guy admitted to the guy with the hidden camera that he was told to hand over his passport, he didn't bother and nothing happened

The Running Man · 3 Aug 2006 at 15:34

Samtheman1k said:
170,000 English fans go to Germany and there are a few hooligan related incidents? In the big scheme of things, it seems pretty isolated to me!

We ain't ignoring them as 3500 hooligans had their passports conviscated beforehand...

what big scheme of things, are u telling me the same wont happen at Euro08 and WC2010? if they do happen, they are not isolated incidents, and therefore need addressing? u cant address something like this without bringing attention to it?

Samtheman1k · 3 Aug 2006 at 15:41

Nickg said:
what big scheme of things, are u telling me the same wont happen at Euro08 and WC2010? if they do happen, they are not isolated incidents, and therefore need addressing? u cant address something like this without bringing attention to it?

I ain't saying that at all and I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion? I'm just saying that with 170,000 fans from England going to another country to support football, it is inevitable that a few hooligans will go aswell. We have been addressing it since the 60s &, if you are old enough to remember what happened in the late 1980s, we have made massive progress, BUT, we still have some way to go. Scare mongering & trying to imply something is a bigger problem than it actually is, like that program does, doesn't help anyone.

KennyBhoy · 3 Aug 2006 at 23:29

I'm watching this now on BBC 1....Some of the scenes are absolutely gobsmacking....Large groups of middle aged guys screaming "You fat *******" at a little Brazilian boy aged about 12 before just turning on anyone who has a flag that isn't English....

It's not just the English......The Poles and Germans are in the thick of it but it has to be said that this programme is giving the impression that the English hooligans are at the fore front of most of it.....The small minority of fans that are part of this culture are sickening animals....

It has to be said too that i think the German Police could have been a lot more tougher than what they actually were at the start of Tournament......Start as you mean to go on and all that!

NokkonWud · 4 Aug 2006 at 00:16

5ingh said:
Its funny how the media percieved the English fans as one of the best and clearly ignored the hooliganism going on in the background.

That wasn't out media making us out to be angels, it was the German media! We really were excellent at the World Cup.
Panorama get paid to make things look bad and only show one side of the story. If they showed the same side everyone else did it wouldn't get a reaction much like this.

converse_uprise · 4 Aug 2006 at 03:13

I spent 2 weeks in Germany during the World Cup and didnt see any trouble at all. As it says in previous posts, the BBC has taken footage of a very small minority and some old footage from previous tournaments.

What I did see however was whilst in Stuttgart the day after England beat Ecuador, was a group of England fans( aged about early to mid twenties) sat outside a cafe/restaurant having lunch when they were approached by a English newsteam. Im not saying that they were from the BBC but they were definately an English newsteam.

The newsteam asked if they could interview the 4 or 5 English fans who jumped at the chance of an interview.

Once the cameras were rolling the fans were asked how long they had been in Germany for and were they enjoying themselves. The reply was that they were having a great time soaking up the atmosphere, meeting other fans, enjoying the football and the weather.

Then came the next question, 'Have you seen or been involved in any fighting/violence since you've been here'?

'Not seen any trouble let alone been in any trouble, anyway like we've already said we've came here to enjoy ourselves and the football, weather etc'.

'So do you know where all of the fighting is taking place and who are involved' asks the interviewer.

English fans reply, ' look we know nothing about fans fighting, causing trouble etc, we're here for the football, weather etc', to which the newsteams response to that was ' OK lads, thanks for your time but your not the type of interview that we're after'!

They then packed up their equipment and strolled off down the road looking totally ****** off with themselves.

What a bunch of *******!

This was a post on the hereford forum, always good to have a side of the story from someone who was actually in germany.

M@rco · 4 Aug 2006 at 12:33

Some of you in this thread are defending English hooligans by trying to tarnish other supporters, it doesnt work like that, im also shocked to see some of you mentioning Italian fans, did anyone see any trouble for italian fans in the world cup? even after Blatter that utter moron refused to give us the cup?

brocksta · 4 Aug 2006 at 15:12

i was gobsmacked after watching that programme. The part that realy got me was when that **** went over to the young girl and poured his drink over her head, absolutely sickening :mad:

Fop · 4 Aug 2006 at 18:43

5ingh said:
Nobody has said that all England fans are hooligans, though. All fans are expected to behave well, not the opposite. Everyone wants to see all fans having fun together. Its a minority, yes - 99% of fans are great. Hopefully things will get better, because just imagine a black/asian fan heading over there and witnessing this for themselves.

See now you're taking this down an entirely different path altogether.

Are you saying that non-white england fans can't be hooligans?
Or that non-white people can't be prejudiced, offensive or racist?

Because not only is that utter nonsense, but to be frank it's a completely racist thing for you to say.

Von Smallhausen · 5 Aug 2006 at 17:56

These hooligans really make me laugh, albeit in a sad way.

They are such hard *******s in a gang aren't they ? Shouting and swearing then battling in numbers with rival supporters or hooligans. Catch them on their own and we'll see how hard they actually are. Anyone can pick up a chair, a bat and clatter people with it but can most of these turkeys actually stand toe to toe with someone who is hard and very capable in a fight ? I doubt most of them could.

They are mindless idiots and when I see the riot cops wading into them with batons, it amuses me greatly.

They are worth the cost of a 9mm .

thebrasso · 5 Aug 2006 at 19:01

Von Smallhausen said:
These hooligans really make me laugh, albeit in a sad way.

They are such hard *******s in a gang aren't they ? Shouting and swearing then battling in numbers with rival supporters or hooligans. Catch them on their own and we'll see how hard they actually are. Anyone can pick up a chair, a bat and clatter people with it but can most of these turkeys actually stand toe to toe with someone who is hard and very capable in a fight ? I doubt most of them could.

They are mindless idiots and when I see the riot cops wading into them with batons, it amuses me greatly.

They are worth the cost of a 9mm .

I can see where you are coming from there Von, these people are pathetic.

I did amateur boxing for four years, I keep myself fit and I'm a 14 odd stone lump. I see these types all the time, acting really hard going round smashing things/people when they have a numerical advantage but on their own they are pathetic.

I'd actually advocate the police being heavy handed with these people, to see how they like it.

Replicant · 6 Aug 2006 at 05:41

I found it equally distrurbing that they created a museum about Hitler, are history books not enough.

Give more compensation to the people affected not waste cash on exhibit trash like that.

Quoted From the Guardian

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War jokes are irresistible because Germans don't find them remotely funny, and there is something deliciously British about making a joke about people who don't get the joke. Furthermore, what the administrators wilfully ignore is that all this has to be taken in a football context. Cooper said, "There are certain things that may be sung tongue in cheek by England fans but may not be taken in a light-hearted way by Germany and its people."

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All this PC rubbish is nonsense let them sing their songs and make their salutes etc, there putting money into the local economy, Random violence i dont condone though, then again as the film pointed out this was only committed by a small minority of fans who lets be honest you could probably imgine inhabiting your nearest council estate and causing the same violence in their local community every weekend.

5ingh · 6 Aug 2006 at 10:09

Fop said:
See now you're taking this down an entirely different path altogether.

Are you saying that non-white england fans can't be hooligans?

Because not only is that utter nonsense, but to be frank it's a completely racist thing for you to say.

No, I think you are taking it down a different path. Maybe I should have explained why I said that. At the beginning of the documentary they were taunting German fans: "I'd rather be a **** than a kraut" etc and there was a black English fan standing there absolutely shocked, and close to tears.

Do you reckon non-white England hooligans will head over there and sing racist songs, when they can be easily attacked back themselves? Who will defend them when their own white counter-parts are being racist/offensive aswell.

Or that non-white people can't be prejudiced, offensive or racist?

The complete opposite. They can, but thats pretty obvious.