PC with good sound card better than HiFi's

Ahem. There aren't that many headphones that cost "thousands" (probably single digits). It's part of the beauty of headphones. You can get to a very high level of sound without spending grands. Most of those that cost thousands are headphones with in limited production (ie. very hard to get hold of).

.. and I would spend more on a CD Player (well, DAC, since I am not keen on swapping CDs either - and someone paying heaps on a CD Player is most likely paying for the DAC and other control features), than an amplifier. A very good source can often power good headphones adequately. An amp willl improve things further, but we are looking at the last few percent. Amplifying a mediocre source with a good (lets forget £15k or whatever) amp will do absolutely nothing. Can't speak for speakers which may be more demanding. But I still suspect that the source is very high in importance in the chain.
 
toucam said:
Well, no way in the world I'm going back to swapping bloody CDs. To spend over £100 on a CD player is just crazy

I don't agree with this at all. My current CDP (Marantz CD6000 OSE LE) was about £300 new and it's far superior than the previous one I owned (Marantz CD5000) which was £180 when new. As it happens I bought them both used for £100 and £30 respectively, but that's just because I'm skint :p If I'd had more money and bought them both new I would have been very happy with the upgrade (I'm even more happy given the used prices I paid).

Also swapping CDs is not a chore when you've got a good hi-fi.

Btw the best headphones Sennheiser currently make (consumer ones anyway) cost under £200.
 
toucam said:
Well, no way in the world I'm going back to swapping bloody CDs. To spend over £100 on a CD player is just crazy, £15K?, I'm sure it's coated with gold and diamond. I don't believe a £15K cd player sounds much better than a £100 cd player. Speakers or amplifiers they do but cd players, no way. They're just trying to squeeze every single drop of milk from those blinded hard core hifi-nuts, who posting pics on message board "Look, I've just bought a £15K cd player and because it's 15K so it's the best". I used to visit head-fi.com a lot as I wanted to buy a good pair of ear-phone and after a few days my budget shot up from £70 to £350. Hifi-nuts there spending thousands on a pair of head phone is a norm.

Have your ever compared a £100 argos separates cdp to mid-high range player like a naim cd5 with a PSU upgrade. ERRRR no!

I could tell the difference be putting a £60 mod into my £35 marantz cdp. What is the poitn in spending thousands on amps, speakers, and cables, when *** thing which reads the music of the cd is crap :rolleyes:
 
adfinni said:
Great value for £25 for the 1m length.
Even that's insane money. Unless the cable is so bad as to be faulty, all that matters is the connections are clean and there is physically an electrical connection from one point to the other.
 
Caged said:
Even that's insane money. Unless the cable is so bad as to be faulty, all that matters is the connections are clean and there is physically an electrical connection from one point to the other.

That's still a hot topic under debate, and interconnects do make a difference.

I'm not going to use a cheapy interconnect cable, and the mark grant 'canare' cable is a no thrills, high quality cable. I could tell the difference with the old phono stereo cable i was using. £25 is a bargin for an interconnect.

Expensive power cables on the hand are another matter.
 
fish99 said:
Also swapping CDs is not a chore when you've got a good hi-fi.
Umm, I don't see myself wanting to swap CD irrespective of how well my system sound.

As for interconnect, m'well.. since it is a hot topic under debate, then it is not universally agreed that it makes a difference (past faulty) isn't it ;) Well, I don't go all generic either to be honest, I do think that if amping provide the last few percent, then cables provide the last 0.x %.
 
adfinni said:
That's still a hot topic under debate, and interconnects do make a difference.

I'm not going to use a cheapy interconnect cable, and the mark grant 'canare' cable is a no thrills, high quality cable. I could tell the difference with the old phono stereo cable i was using. £25 is a bargin for an interconnect.

Expensive power cables on the hand are another matter.

Fair enough, Canare cable is decent, but it doesn't cost £25 a metre.
 
There is no way on earth that I would pay £25 for a home HiFi system, however, when I did have a good system, I swapped the cables over from the originals to some cables my brother gave me, he paid £2.40 a foot and the difference was massive...

I dare say at £25 a meter, the difference would be just as great again.

Lets be totally honest here, but does anyone actually give a to55 whether a system that costs more than a house is better or not than their price and joy PC with extremely good quality sound?

I mean, I use Altec Lansing 955s on my main PC, with an XFI... These are both THX certified, so they are way above your average Home HiFi.
My No2 PC is using a JBL Dolby 6 Channel Digital thingy, coupled to an Audigy 2 ZS, so again, very nice, not brilliant, but very nice.

These are by no means the best on the market, they are nowhere near, but given the crispness of them, do I actually give a No Swearing! about a setup that costs way over a grand? No!
 
FatRakoon said:
I mean, I use Altec Lansing 955s on my main PC, with an XFI... These are both THX certified, so they are way above your average Home HiFi.
My No2 PC is using a JBL Dolby 6 Channel Digital thingy, coupled to an Audigy 2 ZS, so again, very nice, not brilliant, but very nice.

Depends what you mean by 'home hi-fi'. If you mean those all-in-one midi/micro system in argos, then maybe, although the best of those wouldn't be too awful I would imagine. If you mean decent entry level hi-fi seperates by well respected brand names, then no way. THX certifications are given to any old rubbish as stated above.

Too many people use the term 'hi-fi' for any music system, even when there's nothing high-fidelity about them. If you've never heard real hi-fi gear, it's a real experience. I used to think my PC speakers sounded good too. I also used to think my Acoustic Solutions 5.1 DD system sounded good. Oh boy was I wrong, but you need to hear something better to understand.

This thread has gone whacky anyway. I dunno who suggested you need to spend £25 per metre on speaker cable or £5000 on a CD player, I can't seem to find that post :rolleyes: If you buy used there's no reason why £200-300 won't get you something really sweet. The only problem is then you need to hear what £600 will get you, then £1000 :eek:

You can criticize spending this sort of money, but at least it still works just as well 5 and 10 years down the line, when you could spend twice as much on a fast PC, which 5 years down the line is a pile of useless junk and unable to run the latest games.
 
Definietly difference as you go up the scale, as now a budget audio system to me sounds quite bad. I would say the sweet spot of Hi-Fi gear is about £300-£400 per item, and £1000 per item. After that you're going to pay a lot just for small improvements in sound quality (and build quality)
 
Yes, I know THX Means bugger all these days, but also you can accept that if it does have THX then you know that its up to a standard. I said its way above your AVERAGE home hifi, meaning the usual tat from the catalog, that mum or dad buys you for xmas kind of thing, not a proper setup.

Yes, I have heard much better and I have owned much better, but not for the price I havent.

My Yamaha Studio Monitors cost me £1200 for the pair, again, you may not think that they are the best there is, but at the end of the day, they are studio monitors, the type that studios use, and if studios recommend them, then they give out the exact same sound that the producers want me to hear... Plus, the decider on this, was that the speakers were the very same set that were used by 43% of the best studios in the US, although we know that statistics are 99% made up.

So, yes, I do know what high quality should be like, so dont judge my answers too quickly... I am only going by a price limit here...

I currently do not have a good home HiFi, and no, I dont class a little plonky tower as a true HiFi, I am just going by what the masses call them, I only have a crappy Sony thing, again, its in my living room, and I am in my Lan Room, so I cant be bothered to give you the model, but then while it was the best sounding system that I could find in any of the local shops, it is still a pile of poo, but as far as cheap systems go, its just fine.

I have already said, although I said it recently ( few days? ) it might not be this very thread, but I have not all that long ago, nabbed my fathers HiFi ( True HiFi as in seperates ) as that has Optical inputs a swell as various other inputs, and that has a pure Digital mode, and I tested my Audigy and NF7S on it, along with its own CD Player as a comparison... I didnt do the tests perhaps as I should have to answer in this post as I could have, however, what tests I did do, prooved completely to me, that the PC with the Audigy and the JBL Dolby system playing a CD directly, was nowhere near as perfect sounding as the HiFi on its own, in spite of his system being close to 15 years old.

I also ran a CD and a few other things like MP3s and games through his AMP/Speakers and compared them again, to my JBLs ( Those were what I was using at the time you see ) and again, the Amp and speakers made so much difference its untrue.

The main reason I did the tests however, was mainly to see what the Digital vs the Analog on the NF7S was really like and I alos compared it on the Audigy too, and I found that the Optical / Digital was way above what the analog was.

So, yes, I do know even with a respectable Seperates system, that the quality and output can beat a fairly respectable PC speaker system, but again, going back to my reasons, the speakers on the PC are Amp & Speakers, that cost me a fraction of what my fathers setup cost him.

Its also ease of use isnt it to use the PC to play music... Hell, I dont give a stuff if its an MP3 or a real CD, I cannot really tell which is which unless I actually compare them, and even then I really wouldnt give a stuff cos the MP3s are for people like me... idle.

I agree with one thing... Its all getting silly.

I dont use a HiFi on my PC cos I like to have surround sound in games, so for me, and for many many many others, a HiFi no matter how good it sounds, will quite probably not be an option. We need to get as good quality as possible, but stay within a sensible budget.

For me, the Altec Lansing 955s are just fine and the output is astonishing, and often painful, yet it keeps its clarity throughout its range, and above all it cost me bugger all ( Cheers InsanCen ) and even the 251s which I still have, I love cos they rumble the floor... you must remember that I play mostly games and only put a few MP3s on when I am doing other stuff and so I cannot sit down and listen to music as its supposed to be listened to, so I would never appreciate music properly. So, this is I suppose another reason why I currently prefer the PC to play my stuff more than a stereo.

I am waffling again arent I?

Anyway, trust me, I know what a good system sounds like. I know mine isnt the best, but there is no way a HiFi that sounds as good as my PC anywhere near the price.

So, £ for £ I think that a PC speaker setup could be better than a home Stereo yes.

Oh, to be fair though, I have also paid loads of money out for piles of utter junk too, both in HiFi gear, and in PC speakers.
 
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my dad used to have an awesome Hi-Fi set up, cost him thousands, and im yet to hear anything that matches that

But im currently running, Z-5500 with an Xfi Fatal1ty and i'd say that for the price, 300, you wont get a better sound

Infact i'd say you'd have to double it to come close. (and dont say im wrong, my opinion is my opinion, and you can have your own :))

Im not saying the OP's arguement is right, cause like i said, my dads Hi-Fi set up is still the best sounding thing i've ever heard. And i know i wont hear a PC set up that will beat it (not for a few years anyway). But as mentioned, it costs thousands, so you have to pay a lot to get that sorta sound.

And im quite happy sat at my pc with a £300 set up flicking through a playlist and selecting a song at will, rather than sat at my £2000 setup, having to look through CD's and go through tracks

:)
 
james.miller said:
oh no, not THX. can.worms.bloody everywhere. THX isnt worth thinking abotu unless you've got a home theatre system going on, not some plastic pc speakers.

Lol theres no can of worms here, THX certification of pc speakers means bugger all. So because, for example a well regarded top of the range HI-fi and i mean the dogs *******, doesn't have THX, then it means that it sounds worse than an £80 pair of speakers that has a sticker. :rolleyes:

You do not need to spend thousands and thousands on a hifi to hear good music, but a second hand amp, cdp, and speakers (around £200) will sound btetter for music than ANY set of speakers. This really isn't a discussion topic, but a fact. I used to think that my £230 logitech z5500's were as good as a sony or panasonic mini hifi from argos, but didn't realise that a second hand separates system would blow this 5.1, thx, 200W sub boom bosh loud speaker system out of the water.

But when you get into hifi you will realise that certain upgrades will noticably improve the quality of your setup, and it doesn't cost a huge amount. My system for example:

Arcam delta 290 integrated amp (£100) - About 9 years old, but is nearly electronically identical to *** alpha 9 amp that regularly goes for over £200 on the bay. Built in the UK and sounds stunning for the price.

Monitor audio B2 bookshel speaker (£170) - Ok i didn't get these second hand as sevenoaks had a pair in when i auditioned, and i loved them soo much that i had to get em.

Marantz cd63 cd player (£0, paid only for delivery) Broken player with an easy fix. Spent £100 on an upgrade pack of new clock and voltage regulators. Another £50 on new op-amps and capacitors, additional voltage regs, and some vibration dampening, you have a player which should put out sound rivalling £300-£400 2nd hand players. Absolute steal.

Some 2.5mm squared diameter speaker cable for no more than £2-£3 a metre, and a solid interconnect like the mark grant one and your sorted.

Even with a system like this your cd collection will show you sounds you have never heard before in those cd's. Forget pc speakers as a proper music system as all they focus on are boomy and inaccurate bass, and peircing highs :rolleyes: Whereas the mids are totally suppressed and are where a real hi-fi system excel.

Wow, what a post :p

Shame you swore ;) FF.
 
Steedie said:
my dad used to have an awesome Hi-Fi set up, cost him thousands, and im yet to hear anything that matches that

But im currently running, Z-5500 with an Xfi Fatal1ty and i'd say that for the price, 300, you wont get a better sound

Infact i'd say you'd have to double it to come close. (and dont say im wrong, my opinion is my opinion, and you can have your own :))

Im not saying the OP's arguement is right, cause like i said, my dads Hi-Fi set up is still the best sounding thing i've ever heard. And i know i wont hear a PC set up that will beat it (not for a few years anyway). But as mentioned, it costs thousands, so you have to pay a lot to get that sorta sound.

And im quite happy sat at my pc with a £300 set up flicking through a playlist and selecting a song at will, rather than sat at my £2000 setup, having to look through CD's and go through tracks

:)

Nope, sos but even though that is a nice system, music can sound much much better through a hi-fi hooked up to a decent soundcard. I don't doubt tat you have heard a good hifi, but a pc source can be fantastic. I have both, and it didn't cost the earth.

see my setup above with a few alterations.

Amp. Same. £100
Speakers. Could pick them up second hand for ~£100
Soundcard. An emu 0404 (what i have) £70 with £30 of mods on new capacitors, and op-amps.

My modified emu soundcard is connected to my amp and speakers and beats the **** out of my old audigy 2zs and z5500's in music. An amp can easily be connected to a great soundcard source had for ~£100. With lossless music played through fubar my pc system also sound sublime.
 
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WatchTower said:
Why pay 100s of pound for a HiFi when you can get a sound card for about £40 that gives better sound. Well thats how I see it anyway. :D

All it says is about a soundcard in a pc sounding better than a hi-fi. Lol i guess a soundcard with no speakers attached is better than a hifi :D :D :D
No mention of types of speakers so anything goes.
 
FatRakoon said:
The main reason I did the tests however, was mainly to see what the Digital vs the Analog on the NF7S was really like and I alos compared it on the Audigy too, and I found that the Optical / Digital was way above what the analog was.
Well, sound need to be converted back to analogue at some point. Whether this is done by the sound card (analogue out), dedicated DAC (sound card -> DAC -> Speakers), or a speaker (with a DAC built into it) is what matters really. It is not so much that digital will always be superior per se, it only means that in your test, the DAC used turned up to be better than the ones in the NF7S/Audigy.. not a big feat.

And yea, since the OP didn't mention anything, you can argue thing from any angle. As I have mentioned, if the sound card is used as a transport for more better component (DAC/amp), then there is little reason why a computer can't be at least as good as a good dedicated hi-fi system.

Then again, based on the budget the OP stated, I guess we are comparing very mass consumer level products. Which is less interesting for me ;)
 
fish99 said:
I've got the Eltax Monitor 3's currently too and they sound fantastic to me (when setup right, on mass filled stands). Amazing that entry level hi-fi gear can sound so stunning. So clear and detailed, they really do shame the beeps and farts that come from most PC speakers :D And they're only £70 new.

Can just imagine how good the better stuff must sound. I'm in the middle of upgrading my speakers - looking at Wharfedale 9.1, B&W DM601, Mordaunt Short 902i and Monitor Audio Bronze B2.

Hey fish. My mate had some of those eltax and a cambridge audio entry level system. It sounded pretty good, but the Monitor speakers are in another league entirely. Pc speakers sound like they have the audio quality of an old skool BBC computer now :p

I have to thouroughly recommend the MA B2's. I never got the chance to audition the wharfedales as sevenoaks didn't have any, but i have heard the MS 902's and they sounded a bit tinny. Alas, you obviously know what you want with your system, and il just show you a few pics of my babies, and boy do they look good. Unfortunately it's dark now so the lighting is a bit weird, and my desk looks pretty tidy for a normal student :D



 
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