People complaining about paying for their own care again = massive entitlement

[muon]

Young peoples lives are there own base on their choices.

Lol.

Young people unfortunately have very little say in how things are run.

Young people in general would eliminate an unfair triple lock on pensions. They would have voted to stay in the EU and would look at a much more progressive system for care.

The UK government is at historically high levels of debt. How much of that was propping up house prices and private pensions. How many non-working age benefits have been propped up and a made much more generous whilst working age benefits are treated as things to cut. What pay rises have people in the public sector received over the last 10+ years.

When this comes up people always appeal to emotion rather than consider what is objectively fair.

The generation now claiming/wanting all these additional financial benefits, never had to pay the same for the generation above them and so benefitted from lower tax, government debt levels and a booming economy throughout the 20 years prior to the financial crisis. The financial crisis itself was due to the excesses of that same generation.

It is complete selfish hypocrisy.

It's been stated for years now that the generations largely earning money since 2009 will be worse off (potentially much worse off) than their parents since pretty much ever. Globally many countries have fallen into this trap.

Your children will day the same of you

I would be ashamed to ask my children to suffer to pay for me if I have the assets to support myself. If they have financial conditions much worse than what I faced then I would try to help them. They have faced twice in 100 year events, which only the war generation could say they faced worse conditions.

So high house prices and high university fees (to name just two issues young people face) are based on the decisions young people make?

It was also the young generation who sold off the entire social housing stock for large discounts and forgot to replace them. Oh wait, who did that?

 

[adolf hamster]

So high house prices and high university fees (to name just two issues young people face) are based on the decisions young people make?

[labrat]just don't waste your money going to uni- you can easily afford a house on a job that requires just secondary qualifications if you just work harder....[/labrat]

while i jest, i do think there should be some merit to bringing back some societal respect for alternative routes such as apprenticeships or technical colleges rather than just blanket demanding a degree as an entry for so many roles.

 

[Uther]

[labrat]just don't waste your money going to uni- you can easily afford a house on a job that requires just secondary qualifications if you just work harder....[/labrat]

while i jest, i do think there should be some merit to bringing back some societal respect for alternative routes such as apprenticeships or technical colleges rather than just blanket demanding a degree as an entry for so many roles.

Pretty sure someone who puts the work in to become for example, a good plumber will make a nice amount of money, without the 30k uni debt...

 

[muon]

Pretty sure someone who puts the work in to become for example, a good plumber will make a nice amount of money, without the 30k uni debt...

You are right. We need a million more plumbers and they will all earn a nice amount of money.

You talk as if there is a massive shortage of plumbers. Last I checked I can get a plumber easily whenever I want.

 

[adolf hamster]

Pretty sure someone who puts the work in to become for example, a good plumber will make a nice amount of money, without the 30k uni debt...

a fair point, and for some this is the correct career path to take. a good plumber after all is a role that society needs and can pay well when done right.

however not everyone is born to be a successful plumber, or painter, or chef, or mechanic or artist or entrepreneur. this is just the way of the world and you have to play to your strengths.

for example no matter how hard i try, no matter how long i spend at it, even if i travel back in time to forcibly teach a younger me, i will never be a successful musician. it's a natural skillset i simply cannot acquire, both through born ineptitude and natural lack of desire to pursue such a career. this is not a fault, this is just how i am, and whilst i can't detect an out of tune note to save my life i can detect the sound of an unhappy gear mesh where others hear only a whine. this is where my natural talent lies and this is what i should (and have) adjusted my career to. there's nothing inherently wrong with such a choice, indeed it is valuable to know where one's strengths do not lie as much as where they do.

sure i could put a lot of work in and become perhaps a "passable" guitar player, but passable does not a career-long rock star make.

as a real-world example, a friend of mine is a cook, qualified starting from the military and working his way up, and a damn fine one going by the meals of his i've eaten (i've had worse food from nominally "high-end" restaurants). he's currently unemployed and homeless, despite being both eminently competent at his chosen skillset and extremely willing to work, he was made redundant under covid and can't even land a job pushing trolleys at tescos let alone playing to the skills nature has defined as his path in life.

sure we all have decisions to make, but often those desicions are dictated by who we are, and to suggest that anyone can do anything by merely applying themselves to it is a dream that whilst enticing, remains just that- a dream.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

Everyone has ownership of their own reality, don't like it? Make a change no one will do it for you

Exactly my thoughts.

 

[danlightbulb]

Jobs are getting (and need to get to keep up with the world), more high tech in this country. So university is a greater requirement. Now I acknowledge that going to uni to do media studies or some other useless subject is a waste but there are lots of subjects that do bring genuine future growth.

Yeah, of course you can go get other jobs. The retail industry, the service industry, they are still big sectors. And good money can be had in construction or the trades. The issue now though is that historically it would have been possible to live a perfectly reasonable life with a job in factory or shop, and you could have lived in a council house for life that way just fine. Now, that's not possible any more. So we are in a position where there is a more definitive breakpoint between the have's and have not's than ever.

I think the other thing to add is that we (I'm 41) seem to be the generation of a multitude of social experiments. Grammar schools abolishment for example, in favour of comprehensives. Several versions of university tuition fees/grants is another. Several versions of apprenticeships whilst traditional factory jobs were in massive decline is another example. All happening whilst certain groups were getting mega rich feeding of the increasing debts of others, thinking up more and more financial products which ultimately are just there to trap people into a lifetime of servitude.

 

[Uther]

You are right. We need a million more plumbers and they will all earn a nice amount of money.

You talk as if there is a massive shortage of plumbers. Last I checked I can get a plumber easily whenever I want.

Ah so in your world the trades are pointless and everyone should go to uni so they can get a degree for a nice office job pushing buttons on a keyboard for a living if they want a house.
Hard work pays off, not a sense of entitlement.
I'll leave you to it.

 

[LabR@t]

So high house prices and high university fees (to name just two issues young people face) are based on the decisions young people make?

Degrees are pretty much worthless now, everyone has one. It's devalued them to the point i don't even consider then essential when i am looking to hire someone.
Work ethic it's of much more value, too many kids with degrees expecting to much to soon

 

[Dyson]

You are right. We need a million more plumbers and they will all earn a nice amount of money.

You talk as if there is a massive shortage of plumbers. Last I checked I can get a plumber easily whenever I want.

What we really need is a million graduates with geology degrees.

Oh, wait...

 

[muon]

Ah so in your world the trades are pointless and everyone should go to uni so they can get a degree for a nice office job pushing buttons on a keyboard for a living if they want a house.
Hard work pays off, not a sense of entitlement.
I'll leave you to it.

A large number of people still need to go to university. A significant number of jobs require it. Using the idea you can become a good plumber instead when someone complains about high tuition fees is an argument that is deliberately missing the point. University also leads to a diverse range of well paying jobs, I suspect they number in the thousands if someone counted. You've named one vocational job.

What we really need is a million graduates with geology degrees.

Oh, wait...

Good thing that doesn't happen?

The NHS and Civil Service is filled with geology graduates. Lawyers, accountants, engineers, all geology graduates.

But none of them should complain about 30k university debts. They should all have become plumbers.

edit: I should note that I don't think tuition fees of reasonable size are a bad thing. However telling people to become a plumber or a joiner etc. is a ridiculous argument.

 

[danlightbulb]

Degrees are pretty much worthless now, everyone has one. It's devalued them to the point i don't even consider then essential when i am looking to hire someone.
Work ethic it's of much more value, too many kids with degrees expecting to much to soon

Just think this through for a second though please.

Forget degrees or not degrees for the moment.

Back in the day, a person could have started a job at the bottom of the company, met a girl, got a house, had a family, worked his way up. Gone to the pub on a Friday. That is all there was to do and people were happy enough, knew their place.

Now, it's different. A person needs to immediately start on a good salary, or in expectation of a good position in the company rather than at the bottom, because without those things he cannot get a house. Plus society has changed. Instead of being happy meeting a girl and having a family, now you have constant media and social peer pressure to be 'living life' spending money, doing activities, eating healthy, getting fit, seeing the world...etc etc.

So is the person to blame, really, for a set of expectations that have been installed into him by our modern lives?

 

[muon]

Degrees are pretty much worthless now, everyone has one. It's devalued them to the point i don't even consider then essential when i am looking to hire someone.
Work ethic it's of much more value, too many kids with degrees expecting to much to soon

If you don't care about a degree then you arent hiring for jobs that require a degree.

There is a near zero chance I would hire someone without a degree in the right subject, and that won't just be me in the wider department.

No amount of work ethic makes up for it. You don't get marks for effort.

 

[danlightbulb]

If you don't care about a degree then you arent hiring for jobs that require a degree.

There is a near zero chance I would hire someone without a degree in the right subject, and that won't just be me in the wider department.

No amount of work ethic makes up for it. You don't get marks for effort.

I think to add to this, its not just the degree either. Someone can be well educated and naturally intelligent but for whatever reason hasn't been brought up in an environment (or doesn't naturally have a personality) that has instilled confidence and demeanour in them.

So some professions not only require the qualifications (to demonstrate competency) but also the personality to pull off confidence and authority. It's not really an individual's direct fault if they don't have this. Yet these types of intelligent but less confident people have a great deal to offer a company, as they often work very hard and are loyal. But their lack of confidence doesn't get them noticed by managers 'in the clique' who seem to care more about hiring people who can shout the loudest. Politics and big business classic example of this.

 

[Hagar]

I went the mature student route to MICE (Member of the Institution of Civil Engineers), and yes it took me a lot longer.
Having goofed my A levels, my first job on site was as a chain lad, holding the levelling staff, the idiot end of the measuring tape and knocking in pegs. After a year I was offered a day release course to do ONC construction. That is the sum of my academic attainment. However I have grafted, I obtained professional qualifications, I had an aptitude for the work and left it at a high level.
It is still possible to do this although the day release may be longer and the institution more demanding. A degree for an engineering career is highly desirable however it has been recognised that not everybody fits into the ideal and the industry realised that they were losing a lot of very competent people by insisting on degrees and masters to follow when they had good candidates without.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

Degrees are pretty much worthless now, everyone has one. It's devalued them to the point i don't even consider then essential when i am looking to hire someone.
Work ethic it's of much more value, too many kids with degrees expecting to much to soon

My 1st Class Degree in Manufacturing Engineering has proved worth every penny I spent on it .
It means I have leverage over pay. Experience and competence matters hugely too.

That said, most degrees are now worthless.

 

[Mr Badger]

Ha, some pretty crappy posts so what?
Ad hominem

Acknowledging your faux outrage and hypocrisy (taking offense and telling someone to grow up for referring to baby boomers) is not an ad hominem.

 

[danlightbulb]

My 1st Class Degree in Manufacturing Engineering has proved worth every penny I spent on it .
It means I have leverage over pay. Experience and competence matters hugely too.

That said, most degrees are now worthless.

They are worthless because it was never about the subject itself. It has always been about the person. A person with intelligence, confidence, demeanour, aptitude and natural authority will do well with or without a degree.

The types of people going to university fifty years ago had the benefit of having gone to grammar schools first, and being taught from a young age to excel. Universities carried on this type of schooling.

Now, people going to university would have been the people who fifty years ago would have simply worked in a factory or something. Universities have changed too, no longer teaching individuals to excel in life. The calibre of person hasn't really changed that much, they just now have a degree.

 

[Richie]

Acknowledging your faux outrage and hypocrisy (taking offense and telling someone to grow up for referring to baby boomers) is not an ad hominem.

You're a little disingenuous with this. You actually said:

Surely boomers deserve some reward for voting for Brexit?

The term "boomers" is well known as referring to the baby boomer generation in a derogatory fashion. The content of your post supports this further.

 

[cheesyboy]

The term "boomers" is well known as referring to the baby boomer generation in a derogatory fashion. The content of your post supports this further.

I dunno. I think the "ok boomer" meme is perhaps what you're thinking of, being a catch-all term for outdated worked-out-ok-for-me thinking.

'boomer' itself isnt really a derogatory term. No more than 'millenial' as applied to all young people, rather than the correct age group (who are all aged at least 26)