petrol stations price discussion (was ‘chaos’)

[jpaul]

Was almost on fumes yesterday so filled up. £138.58

read that as £1.38/litre initially


just need legislation to bring is road use charge fuel tax like NZ and then everyone can be satisfied V
but I doubt chancellor could institute that quickly, or ... relax this years road 'tax'.

Diesel in NZ isn't taxed at the pump hence the lower pricing, you have to pay an extra charge for every 1000km driven in a diesel car.

https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/owning-a-...ad-user-charges/paying-road-user-charges-ruc/

that's interesting so they already have the process to report annual mileage $76nz/1000km £40/600miles - with ev excluded until 2024.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I’m not sure how that is any different to what we have with fuel duty. It’s already a pay per mile system.

The more miles you do, the more fuel you buy, the more tax you pay.

£40 per 600 miles is about 6p per mile which is roughly how much fuel duty+vat on the fuel duty is on an average engine averaging 48mpg.

Yes I get fuel use is being phased out but I’m not sure how you think a 6p per mile tax will be any better than fuel duty. Most people will pay about the same, if anything it incentivises more polluting vehicles as it will lower their total cost of ownership compared to now which is not a good thing.

I’d expect any pay per mile system to come in higher than 6p in the U.K.

 

[Cyber-Mav]

Times like this really making me question using high octane over 95

 

[ShiWarrior]

1.879 for petrol here

£40.06 = 21.32 Litres
not even half a tank

 

[jpaul]

I’m not sure how that is any different to what we have with fuel duty. It’s already a pay per mile system.

once you have duplicated NZ annual reporting mechanism, you can implement variable rates eg. everyone gets 4K miles a year for free, as suggested in a previous uk study,
which is really what smart meters could deliver for UK houshold energy, too. ... all, like the tax system

 

[Greebo]

I’m not sure how that is any different to what we have with fuel duty. It’s already a pay per mile system.

The more miles you do, the more fuel you buy, the more tax you pay.

£40 per 600 miles is about 6p per mile which is roughly how much fuel duty+vat on the fuel duty is on an average engine averaging 48mpg.

Yes I get fuel use is being phased out but I’m not sure how you think a 6p per mile tax will be any better than fuel duty. Most people will pay about the same, if anything it incentivises more polluting vehicles as it will lower their total cost of ownership compared to now which is not a good thing.

I’d expect any pay per mile system to come in higher than 6p in the U.K.

i think the plan is to go with a variable charging system. Want to drive on major roads during rush hour? That will be £1 per mile. Want to drive in a rural area at 10am then that will be 4p per mile. Pretty sure there has already being papers done on a scheme like this.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

i think the plan is to go with a variable charging system. Want to drive on major roads during rush hour? That will be £1 per mile. Want to drive in a rural area at 10am then that will be 4p per mile. Pretty sure there has already being papers done on a scheme like this.

The main issue I have with that kind of system is that sounds like an incredibly expensive system to implement. When you compare to tolls and a flat mileage charge per the NZ example, it’s very inefficient.

There are also other potential unintended consequences such as penalising business AMD making it harder to recruit workers in certain areas, particularly those who are low paid. Also you push more people away from town centres further killing them off.

 

[jpaul]

end game .... read below study paper government was considering

Airline travels the one to reduce ? I liked the idea of a personal tradeable road/carbon budget which could include planes too.

 

[CapitalOne]

Wow 11 days ago I filled up my CLS350 with premium diesel at 1.72 a litre, halfish tank for a dogleg drive down to Devon at £86. Came back the next day on the same dogleg journey and filled it back up with premium for £87 at £1.72 again. I never though I’d be saying I got a bargain. Round trip Croydon, Chichester, Ottery St Mary about 410 miles I think.

With a “computer” range on that full tank of 705 miles(!) that’s 6 months driving for me.

 

[Scania]

Fuel duty down by 5p for the next 12 months yet the average price of a litre of petrol has risen by more than 40p a litre since last year’s Spring Statement, which means the government is getting an extra 7p per litre in VAT, which is the other tax the government imposes on fuel.

Diesel prices are up by nearly 50p a litre, almost 9p of which is VAT.

So the chancellor can afford to cut fuel duty by 5p and still be making more per litre in tax than he did a year ago.

Given pretty much everything we own and use is at some point transported by a truck, inflation is going to continue to skyrocket, these diesel price rises are being passed down the supply chain culminating at the customers, which are us all.

 

[throwaway4372]

Now you can get a free Twix when you fill up.

 

[tom_e]

Fuel duty down by 5p for the next 12 months yet the average price of a litre of petrol has risen by more than 40p a litre since last year’s Spring Statement, which means the government is getting an extra 7p per litre in VAT, which is the other tax the government imposes on fuel.

Diesel prices are up by nearly 50p a litre, almost 9p of which is VAT.

So the chancellor can afford to cut fuel duty by 5p and still be making more per litre in tax than he did a year ago.

Given pretty much everything we own and use is at some point transported by a truck, inflation is going to continue to skyrocket, these diesel price rises are being passed down the supply chain culminating at the customers, which are us all.

Plus we all know that 5p will never appear at the pump, it'll funnel nicely into the fuel companies profits.

 

[Journey]

Surely the cut is 6p, as it is 5p + VAT.

 

[Scania]

Plus we all know that 5p will never appear at the pump, it'll funnel nicely into the fuel companies profits.

Quite, as an experiment I clocked a price of diesel at a station yesterday knowing this 5p cut was already out there in the media, it was 177.9ppl this morning? - 182.9ppl so when they drop it I’m assuming at 6pm, it’ll be back to where it was yesterday conveniently for them!

Another gripe, why the .9 pricing? We all know 179.9 is near as dam-nit 180.0, really annoys me that they can do this….

Surely the cut is 6p, as it is 5p + VAT.

The cut as far as I’m aware is off the rate of fuel duty, not VAT.

 

[jpaul]

dammit - duty is payed when petrol is delivered to the station ... so I won't be down at the petrol station at midnight.

 

[Rroff]

Quite, as an experiment I clocked a price of diesel at a station yesterday knowing this 5p cut was already out there in the media, it was 177.9ppl this morning? - 182.9ppl so when they drop it I’m assuming at 6pm, it’ll be back to where it was yesterday conveniently for them!

Another gripe, why the .9 pricing? We all know 179.9 is near as dam-nit 180.0, really annoys me that they can do this….




The cut as far as I’m aware is off the rate of fuel duty, not VAT.

Oh that is why where I normally fill up went from 174.9 to 180.9... so much for the cut. Pretty predictable scummy behaviour.

 

[Journey]

The cut as far as I’m aware is off the rate of fuel duty, not VAT.

Since fuel duty is priced in before VAT then the extra 1p is also taken away as that 5p doesn't exist anymore to have VAT added on to.

Actual just looked and -

"In response to Rishi Sunak's statement, supermarket chains Asda and Sainsburys said it would reduce its pump prices by 6p a litre, including a 1p reduction in VAT."

 

[Greebo]

dammit - duty is payed when petrol is delivered to the station ... so I won't be down at the petrol station at midnight.

And yet when duty goes up it always applied from 6pm that day?

 

[Simon]

Plus we all know that 5p will never appear at the pump, it'll funnel nicely into the fuel companies profits.

The retailer/franchisee may do that but that’s out of fuel companies control. The price will come down 6p once stock is cleared (although oil has started climbing again )

 

[chroniclard]

It's not even a cut really, it's just sunak reducing his "profits" slightly as the increased price already generated the gov tons of cash.