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PhysX launched today.

Soldato
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I think you have to watch some of the demos to understand the advantages of the Physx/Physics implimentation. The fact is that the 'idea' is a stunning addition to gameplay. This is really interactive environments rather than scripted or partially interactive env.

I personally don't think that anyone can question the validity of the technology, just the implimentation and timeliness of the release ;)

The advent of DX10 will be the perfect opportunity for ATI and Nvidia to redesign their physics implimentations. Surely an integrated card is the more efficient option?
 
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With HavocFX going to be implemented into new NVIDIA cards, that only leaves AGEIA to make super fast cards to compete...but it's still limited to the way the GPU interacts with it.

Let's hope AGEIA comes out with something interesting...I will not be buying the first generation of AGEIA cards, I will wait for the second for third gen release.
 
Soldato
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I'm not entirely sure that I understand the implications of physics implimentation in a game, but a developer will have to account for as many of the PPU variations as possible, much the same way as they have to account for the different GPUs on the market now.

Haha - the world just got a little more complicated for games developers :)
 

n3x

n3x

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SteveOBHave said:
I'm not entirely sure that I understand the implications of physics implimentation in a game, but a developer will have to account for as many of the PPU variations as possible, much the same way as they have to account for the different GPUs on the market now.

Haha - the world just got a little more complicated for games developers :)

i would have thought things got easier for them... seeing as ageia are giving out their very good physx SDK for free. its either use FREE software that does all the physics for them and also has the option for gamers to take advantage of a physx card or pay out money for havok with the lame gfx card fake physics, i know which one i'd choose...
 
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SteveOBHave said:
Haha - the world just got a little more complicated for games developers :)

I would have thought it would have made things less complicated but the task of implementing would take longer to complete.

Look at the way interaction and physics work in HL2, now developers can work towards even more realistic physics.

It's great news for the developers as they can create more immersive environments.

n3x said:
...or pay out money for havok with the lame gfx card fake physics, i know which one i'd choose...

Don't knock what hasn't been implemented yet. It's assumed that the nvidia cards can do just the same amount of work... I would rather buy a new graphics card with the HavocFX with it rather than a graphics card and ppu.

Anyway I reserve judgement on both until their release..all in all it's win-win for us gamers/designers.
 
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Soldato
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ihatelag said:
I would have thought it would have made things less complicated but the task of implementing would take longer to complete.

Look at the way interaction and physics work in HL2, now developers can work towards even more realistic physics.

It's great news for the developers as they can create more immersive environments.



Don't knock what hasn't been implemented yet. It's assumed that the nvidia cards can do just the same amount of work... I would rather buy a new graphics card with the HavocFX with it rather than a graphics card and ppu.

Anyway I reserve judgement on both until their release..all in all it's win-win for us gamers/designers.

Yeah, I'd agree with the Win/Win. In regards to going for the cheapest DEV option, no, I think the developers will be looking at the largest sales potential, ie ATI and NVidia (at the moment)...
 
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has no one yet notice that taking an sli setup of 2 high end cards at £300ish each and using one for physics would eb a lot more expensive then getting 1 high end gfx card and a £200/£150 physx card? I know which I would go for. although not till next generation by the reviews of the noise and heat even when idling....
 
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They are talking about using your older card for physics, like have a 7900GT as your main card, and have your old 6600GT doing physics - it makes sense, gives your old card some value still.
 
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Lanz said:
They are talking about using your older card for physics, like have a 7900GT as your main card, and have your old 6600GT doing physics - it makes sense, gives your old card some value still.

Not that I don't think that it's a good idea, I still think that it's quite a clumsy implimentation.

I love the idea of the physics engine and I love the idea of what it could do for all games, flight sims, racing games, fighting games... What I don't love is the wasteful extra card scenario, be it SLI or PhysX.

It strikes me that GPU producers have fallen on a brilliant money making scheme and will stick to it as long as we consumers keep spending money on the idea. I for one will not be spending my dosh on an extra card for a 10% gain at a 200% price increase...
 
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oxygene said:
has no one yet notice that taking an sli setup of 2 high end cards at £300ish each and using one for physics would eb a lot more expensive then getting 1 high end gfx card and a £200/£150 physx card? I know which I would go for. although not till next generation by the reviews of the noise and heat even when idling....

You don't assign a graphics card in SLi for physics, the process is shared between the two. Same principle applies in Crossfire. Crossfire calculations shared between each GPU, if we take rendering for example, it is done in a chessboard shape, every other square is calculated by the other gpu, and SLi uses lines of rows, each line calculated by a different GPU. (I could go on forever on different types of rendering, like AFR -alternate frame rendering - but this thread is linked to physics- go here http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/nvidia/sli/ for more information) Although don't confuse the above process with pure physics calculations, this is usually shared between cpu -> gpu.

With HavocFx, you can save £250 on a ppu. And having an all in one solution sounds more appealing to me.

Making graphics cards less CPU dependant sounds very interesting, let's hope the PPU's live up to the hype so that graphics card companys start to take notice of the competition. (Graphic card companies would rather they have people purchase another graphics card, rather than getting another component from another company)

Not to recycle what I said earlier, but I agree with waiting on the purchase, I will be waiting for the second/third generation release before I even consider to buy it...albeit by then we will be able to compare the graphics cards with the ppu's that have been released and we can decide what to get.
 
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I would just wait! :D Seriously if these flop you've just wasted £200 on card with just a few fancy demos.

Better to "waste" £200 on hard drives...at least you'll have the space...even if you don't fill them up.
 
Soldato
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squiffy said:
I would just wait! :D Seriously if these flop you've just wasted £200 on card with just a few fancy demos.

Better to "waste" £200 on hard drives...at least you'll have the space...even if you don't fill them up.

Read my sig ;)
 
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Regarding using a graphics card as a physics card in addition to being a graphics card...is there enough spare processing power and memory? I'm not convinced that there is, particularly since any spare capacity on a graphics card can be used for more realistic graphics.

The PhysX PPU contains about 125 million transistors and is designed specifically for that one task. The cards also have 128MB of their own memory. I am not convinced that the card can be adequately replaced by whatever spare processing power and memory is available on a graphics card. It is not at all common that a complex specialist piece of kit can be replaced by spare capacity on something else.

I think we'll have a 3-tier system in a while. Low physics with just a CPU, low-medium with a powerful enough graphics card (which would probably also require reducing graphics settings) and high physics with a physics card (which will probably be a choice of PhysX cards, since I don't see any other company in the market).

The next question is - will games developers consider it worth the extra time needed to develop a game to run at 3 different levels of physics?

I think they probably will in terms of realism, e.g. more complex particle effects, more accurate deformation and destruction of game objects (like the tower collapsing in the demo video from the website) and stuff like that. That is relatively easy to implement in three levels, as it doesn't affect the game. PCs with more physics power will get a more realistic-looking game, PCs with less physics power will get a less realistic-looking game, but it will be the same game. It's analogous to graphics settings today.

I think they probably won't in terms of what is probably the greatest potential of a physics card - player-gameworld interactivity. I don't think we'll be seeing much of things such as the ability to pick up a gameworld rock, use it as a tool to break off a gameworld branch from a gameworld tree and use that as a club, except in the form in which it currently exists, i.e. in a limited context where written in by the programmer. That sort of thing affects the game itself, so the game developer has several bad options. Firstly, create a game which only runs on a PC with a physics card. Secondly, create a game in which players on PCs with a physics card have a massive advantage over players on a PC without a graphics card. You'd essentially have to create two versions of the game and keep them separate. Not just for multiplayer (which could be done by using different servers) but also for single-player, because the two versions of the game would have to be balanced very differently. Thirdly, don't support physics cards at all.
 
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Anyone need convincing ? :p :

Check out these physics from new indiana jones game, its NOT scripted, the 'dummys' are simply told to get from point A to B and stay on feet where possible and remove anything in there path, there balance and movements again I repeat are not scripted, when one of the dummys is knocked over, it uses its own 'thinking/programming' to use the best method to get up, as its shaped like a human, it gets off the floor exactly like a human, check it out :cool:

http://uk.media.xbox360.ign.com/articles/702/702389/vids_1.html

(click on natural motion 2 in high res)

This is using the 2nd core on an xbox 360, me wonders why they dont use core 2 on a PC for physics, but I reckon PhysX cards will be able to do this
 
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