Caporegime
Someone sounds like they hate the public sector lol
plan for collapse of Thames Water
- Thread starter Mrwong
- Start date
Soldato
IDK, because I have no idea what you do (nor care) but your idea of how the economy works is primary school level going by your last few posts
Caporegime
Bit of a special comment to make then, wasn't it?
So, if the public sector just called it a day tomorrow, and just resigned en masse and set up their own businesses..
The economy would be fine, right? Things wouldn't come crashing down, and there wouldn't be chaos.
Kind-hearted private sector CEOs would divert their profits to run hospitals, pay for infrastructure, maintenance.
All the things that the private sector needs. Needs to exist. To make money. To make profits. To pay taxes.
It's all circular and interdependent.
The people who say, "Public needs private to exist, private sector generates the income, and public is just a drain. A drain on all us self-made men, running our self-made companies, who have never had any support from this durned gubment."
Yeah, they don't live in the real world.
Caporegime
There would be massive chaos. The problem is you, and others in here, don't seem to understand the difference between generating money and facilitating the generation of money.
Economies have existed long before centralised government however and succeeded without it. Governments cannot exist without private business.
But... what about the money in the economy that was only generated because of the public sector facilitating its generation...
The businesses that can only exist when the public sector facilitates their existence..
The fact that we don't all work down the mines or on a factory floor... given that the private sector on the whole didn't care much for the welfare of the workers... I guess unions can take some credit there, but so can government.
Interdependence. It's a thing.
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Caporegime
But... what about the money in the economy that was only generated because of the public sector facilitating its generation...
The businesses that can only exist when the public sector facilitates their existence..
The fact that we don't all work down the mines or on a factory floor... given that the private sector on the whole didn't care much for the welfare of the workers... I guess unions can take some credit there, but so can government.
Interdependence. It's a thing.
It's still facilitation! That's the point.
Like I said, the private sector can exist without the public, the public sector cannot exist without the income of the private sector. It is not self funding.
Actually the mines you mentioned are a brilliant example. Long before we had the NHS, state schools or the welfare state mining corporations provided all of those things. Mining corporations built homes for their workers (and retirees), built schools to educate their workers and the workers children, provided healthcare and would even support widows and the disabled.
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Associate
As a teacher working in the public sector... How the living daylights will your company survive without schools? I know there are private schools and English system free schools that make profit and are closer to a private model, but if schools shut shop permanently how will you train your next generation of worker who have zero maths, language, etc skills?
FluffySheep
Caporegime
The same way it was done in the past, as I've just pointed out ref mines. As it happens we actually have our own school and train people in plant operation and offer 'core skills' courses in the likes of maths and English.
We often take on staff who have performed very poorly in school or have had troubled pasts. We invest in them and get some brilliant, loyal colleagues.
Edit: I have a facilities supervisor that I recruited. He left school with literally no qualifications and had been in and out of youth detention facilities. I brought him in as a labourer and put him through a core skills course in his first year.
I then put him through a joinery apprenticeship.
He now runs one of our facilities and has a small team working for him. He literally couldn't write when he started.
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Not sure what mines you're referring to but many of them didn't do any of those things. Certainly the mine operators down here (Cornwall has a thing for mining) were not of a mind to do much for their workers except pay the absolute minimum they could and certainly didn't bother with such luxuries and health and safety.
Caporegime
Look up 'company towns'.
@Dis86 anyway, in the absense of the public sector, who decides what your money is worth? Who prints your money? How does one company pay another?
What happens if there is a dispute between companies? Who resolves it? By what mechanism?
Assume there is no government, because you said we don't need it..
What happens if there is a dispute between companies? Who resolves it? By what mechanism?
Assume there is no government, because you said we don't need it..
Soldato
Two words, money velocity. And I don't mean coins fall faster than notes. Have a squiz.
Caporegime
How does that counter what I said in that post?
Caporegime
All things that happened before the public sector existed.
You... sure about that? I'm fairly sure that taxation has been around a long, long, long time.
Caporegime
In some places yes, not others. In most places historically taxation was not taken for any public provision but rather the enrichment of rulers or a ruling class.
But if there was taxation then there was also a common money standard. Normal set by the same source as the people demanding the payment of taxes.
You're talking about some pretty fundamental things that we take completely for granted. Talking about either scrapping them entirely or putting them into the hands of... who, exactly? A coalition of private industry?
Caporegime
Currency existed long before the public sector.
Trade guilds and the free-market do not need government. That's their entire point.
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Associate
Let's hope you don't have a fire on your site or a worker gets badly mauled by a machine (absolutely no jokes akin to mafia style here) as no fire service or ambulance staff.
As for workers with no qualifications, as a teacher I will put my hand up and say we do fail some kids/young adults with their qualifications on paper, but I said ZERO maths, language, etc. Not a piece of paper that says they can. How will you train up workers? Your training staff need to be educated. Hard when they are illiterate and innumerate.
FluffySheep
As for workers with no qualifications, as a teacher I will put my hand up and say we do fail some kids/young adults with their qualifications on paper, but I said ZERO maths, language, etc. Not a piece of paper that says they can. How will you train up workers? Your training staff need to be educated. Hard when they are illiterate and innumerate.
FluffySheep