plan for collapse of Thames Water

Has it been implemented - Yes/No.
Simple as that, really. They obviously have to offer some kind of financial incentive to attract someone for the role. The previous CEO already just cut and ran when she saw the magnitude of the problem she'd taken on... The current bloke took it from a sinking ship, to one with four or five pretty serious investors all vying for it.
How many of these top talent people been given the job, knocked up a strategy to fix it, been instantly rewarded for it and then have that strategy fail. Rinse and repeat.

I see no other demonstration here aside from the complete ineptitude, from the board, by the rolling stock of these so-called top talent hires.
 
How many of these top talent people been given the job, knocked up a strategy to fix it, been instantly rewarded for it and then have that strategy fail. Rinse and repeat.

I see no other demonstration here aside from the complete ineptitude, from the board, by the rolling stock of these so-called top talent hires.

I agree. Organisations this big are massive beasts and 99% of what happens is due to legacy factors with 1% based on immediate leadership decisions. It is very difficult to see what benefit these Exec's are providing to the organisation. But top exec/CEO level pay has become so over-inflated these companies are forced into these non value for money hires just to get someone in the post.
 
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I agree. Organisations this big are massive beasts and 99% of what happens is due to legacy factors with 1% based on immediate leadership decisions. It is very difficult to see what benefit these Exec's are providing to the organisation. But top exec/CEO level pay has become so over-inflated these companies are forced into these non value for money hires just to get someone in the post.
It is utterly barmy. In the Thames case, it seems the sole strategy is to hire someone who can successfully lobby the government and regulators, and other relevant parties, to ramp up service costs for customers and/or taxpayers. I constantly hear that the failure to successfully implement a strategy is due to competing or conflicting limitations or restrictions imposed by various government bodies, whether independent or not. This makes the situation seem even more ridiculous, especially when considering the high salaries of these executives.
 
They should be given these bonus after they have fixed the problems and turned the company round. These people are not worth the money.
It a slap in the face to the British, sometimes I wonder how do they even manage to get to these positions with a failed track record.
 
I'm not an accountant, but it'll be to do with tax.*

Edited because I can't remember the specifics. Quick Google: Corporation tax and National Insurance are not paid on dividends. Whereas if paid on PAYE would increase the corporation's tax bill.
A cash bonus must be classed as PAYE though I would imagine, can't see it being ok to not collect tax or NI on a cash bonus. Shares yeah I can see there's probably different rules there.
 
I'm not an accountant, but it'll be to do with tax.*

Edited because I can't remember the specifics. Quick Google: Corporation tax and National Insurance are not paid on dividends. Whereas if paid on PAYE would increase the corporation's tax bill.
How are you supposed to pay a dividend to someone that isn’t a shareholder? And even if management do hold shares, you can’t just pay a dividend to specific shareholders only.

Google is not a substitute for actual knowledge. None of what you say makes sense.
 
How are you supposed to pay a dividend to someone that isn’t a shareholder? And even if management do hold shares, you can’t just pay a dividend to specific shareholders only.

Google is not a substitute for actual knowledge. None of what you say makes sense.

Fair, I hadn’t really acknowledged that we were talking about employees not shareholders.
 
no reason why the bonus shouldn't be paid as a vested stock option - the employees then have a longer term responsibility, versus fly-by-night.
 
How many of these top talent people been given the job, knocked up a strategy to fix it, been instantly rewarded for it and then have that strategy fail. Rinse and repeat.
David Owens awarded all contracts to a specific company, then quit to go work for that same company.
Martin Baggs helmed the Macquarrie disaster that got Thames into this position in the first place.
Steve Robertson made good headway, but stepped on too many toes and the exec board ousted him.
Sarah Bentley took the payouts and then ran when she saw how badly the ship was sinking.

I see no other demonstration here aside from the complete ineptitude, from the board, by the rolling stock of these so-called top talent hires.
The ship is not sinking as much as it was when the curent bloke took over... That's probably the starting point.

How are you supposed to pay a dividend to someone that isn’t a shareholder? And even if management do hold shares, you can’t just pay a dividend to specific shareholders only.
You can pay internal shareholders, on the basis of it being necessary interest on the loan investment. You'd need someone better versed in taxes to explain it, but it's perfectly legal in most cases.

It is utterly barmy. In the Thames case, it seems the sole strategy is to hire someone who can successfully lobby the government and regulators, and other relevant parties, to ramp up service costs for customers and/or taxpayers.
Yes, because:

I constantly hear that the failure to successfully implement a strategy is due to competing or conflicting limitations or restrictions imposed by various government bodies, whether independent or not. This makes the situation seem even more ridiculous, especially when considering the high salaries of these executives.
EA - You will invest much more money into protecting the environment, and meet all these new regulations we came up with.
OFWAT - You will invest far less money to prevent customer costs increasing, and then we'll fine you for failing to meet the EA's new regulations.
 

If what he said is true then the leader is a completely accountable for the **** show. Senior leadership is NOT your most precious resource! Obviously this snip may be out of context... so apologies if that's the case.
 
I've worked in tax for over a decade and am still none the wiser on what you're suggesting.
Something to do with cumulative or accrued dividends and preferential shares set to pay on a specific date, whereby the company is legally obliged to pay those shareholders without having to pay out to any others?
It's how the parent company Kemble Water takes money without paying external investors, as the Kemble shares accrue and are then considered a legally owed debt once the payment date is passed.
 
Something to do with cumulative or accrued dividends and preferential shares set to pay on a specific date, whereby the company is legally obliged to pay those shareholders without having to pay out to any others?
It's how the parent company Kemble Water takes money without paying external investors, as the Kemble shares accrue and are then considered a legally owed debt once the payment date is passed.
Is it not related to the class of shares. A shares and B shares relate to internal investors versus external or somesuch? I know the big tech companies operate such as system. Either way it's a capitalism blag.

e: I suspect this is all further obfuscated with parent / child / shell company relationships. e.g. Kemble v Thames v x.
 
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Something to do with cumulative or accrued dividends and preferential shares set to pay on a specific date, whereby the company is legally obliged to pay those shareholders without having to pay out to any others?
It's how the parent company Kemble Water takes money without paying external investors, as the Kemble shares accrue and are then considered a legally owed debt once the payment date is passed.
Yes, but that is by issuing different classes of shares to different shareholders to enable different dividends to be paid. Preference shares are debt-like in that they typically accrue a fixed dividend, rather than being discretionary, but are treated as equity for tax. There’s nothing particularly clever about this as the coupons are non deductible for the payer and generally non taxable for a corporate recipient (not an individual). They are a cash repatriation mechanism rather than a tax ruse, and are commonplace.
 
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Makes you wonder that if they have to pay so much to get the best people, and the state of the UK’s waterways are so poor, then what would they be if they didn’t pay as much as they do, would we just have rivers of acid or something.
 
Makes you wonder that if they have to pay so much to get the best people, and the state of the UK’s waterways are so poor, then what would they be if they didn’t pay as much as they do, would we just have rivers of acid or something.
They aren't the best people, despite how much they are paid. They are professional BS'ers.
 
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