Players who should be good, but aren't...

Originally posted by Gilly
I don't think it's fair to name Keown, Radebe OR Bridges TBH, they've not played for ages through injury/age.

Thats the reason we left out Sheringham (he's a worse player now because he's old, not because he's just lost it).

I don't believe for a second that Taibi had long enough, and he aint in the Prem any more so can hardly be commented on.

Batty aint being picked so he can't be commented on, he was class last season. Nyarko has also left the Prem iirc so he cannot be commented on, Carrick has been playing quite well this season IMO. It's just that no-one else in a West Ham shirt has...
Click to expand...

wouldn't that be true for ferdinand / keane ? ?
 
Originally posted by Cemetery
LOL, you cannot include Teddy in the never was any good, that is just being blind & he is still a decent player just in a slump & too old now.

Redknapp....erm he is still quality, no questions asked.

From the original lists I would remove:

Believed to be good but aren't and never were

Kieron Dyer
Danny Murphy
Kevin Phillips
Stephane Henchoz


None of those should be there imo, each good enough at their jobs some of whom better than others & worthy of being called good.


Were good but not any more:

Stephen Gerrard
David beckham
Paul Scholes
Rio Ferdinand
Harry Kewell
Roy Keane
Lee Bowyer
John Arne Riise
Juan Sebastian Veron

Don't agree with any of these :) Veron for instance is still a class above many other midfielders, Riise is a decent player just doesn't get played enough, Bowyer's heart aint in Leeds, but still makes decent plays. Keane, Beckham & Ferdinand have been injured recently but all play well, they may not be up to their peaks but would still walk onto many teams on current form (Keane on past form but that is coz he just got back). Gerrard has been the sole hope for Liverpool for goal chances from midfield of late showing he is still a good player. Kewell has been scoring so is doing his job.


Players that teams couldn't do without:

Agreed :)
Click to expand...

I agree with everything said above. Cem the voice of reasoning once again!
 
Originally posted by Gilly
Bring your players in here. Those who used to be good, those who are believed to be good but aren't, and those playing for decent teams that don't deserve to be. Along with, of course, those players that ARE good players. Not players that WILL be good, or COULD be good, or blow hot and cold, but play well all the time :)

There's quite a few if you think about it.

Believed to be good but aren't and never were:

Wes Brown - Disagree, on of the best of the younger generation
Nicky Butt - disagree brilliant
Ashley Cole - disagree good player
Paul Okon
Nick Barmby
Stephane Henchoz
Olivier Bernard
Emile Heskey
Kieron Dyer
Danny Murphy
Kevin Phillips
Tore Andre Flo
Marcus Stewart
Noel Whelan
Jonothan Greening
Mario Stanic
Jesper Gronkjaer
Jamie Carragher
Celestine Babayaro

Were good but not any more:

Stephen Gerrard
Michael Owen
Ian Harte
David beckham - still excellent but not as good ah he used to be
Paul Scholes - brilliant players, one of the best in the world
Eirik Bakke
Rio Ferdinand -
Mark Viduka
Harry Kewell
Roy Keane - one of the best mids in the world
Michael Ricketts
Darius Vassell
Lee Bowyer
Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink - still a brilliant player
John Arne Riise
Juan Sebastian Veron - Playing better football recently
Marcel Desailly - still one of the best defenders inthe prem
David Seaman

Players that teams couldn't do without:

Ruud Van Nistelrooy
Thierry Henry
Danny Mills
Gianfranco Zola
Alan Shearer
Gary Speed
Jonothan Woodgate
Damien Duff
Sami Hyypia
Gareth Southgate
Sorele Geremi
Patrick Vieira
William Gallas
Shay Given
Paul Robinson
Ryan Giggs


Also interested in hearing your guesses as to who will be joining the ranks of these lists next season and the season after. Mssrs Jamie Milner and Wayne Rooney par example.

So these are a list compiled entirely by atpbx and I. Tell us why we are wrong, Tell us where we are wrong. Tell us where you agree and tell us players you would put in your lists.
Click to expand...

Also i would add ole solskjaer to the "Players that teams couldn't do without" bit
 
Re: Re: Players who should be good, but aren't...

Originally posted by NitrogenY3K
Also i would add ole solskjaer to the "Players that teams couldn't do without" bit
Click to expand...

Thing is with Solskajear, (and i love him to bits), is that we can win without him, the players in the "teams cant do without" section are for there most part in myself and gillmeister's opinion because the teams that they play for are transformed merely by them being in the pitch.
Not because they score a billion goals, or do it for england, players that have a BIG impact if they arnt there, for instance, if Henry doesnt play, good as Bergkamp is, it isnt the same, and if Gary Speed doesnt play for newcastle, they seem to lose all their cohesion.


And my opinion If Ashley cole doesnt play, Edu or the other coloured chap does and Arsenal look better at the back, Cole gets forward lots, but isnt that good at defending, he tries to con the Referee too often, and really his mid too long distance passing isnt all that great.
I think he fits more into a catergory like "believed to be Fantastic, but is merely OK"
 
Originally posted by memphisto
believed

Laurent Blanc



were, no longer

.......


that will have to do for now
Click to expand...

Surely Laurent Blanc fits into the 'were but no longer' category? Again, as with Teddy Sheringham et al it's more of an age thing i'd suspect, an inevitability.

I agree with Gilly though, you can't judge the ability of a player simply on the effort they put into a game. I could walk out onto a premiership pitch and put 110% into a game, but i wouldn't be any good or of any use. Should the fact that i've put that effort in automatically make me a good player? I don't think so.
 
ashley cole gives it 110% and is a good player, he has been arsenals best player all season, i think too many people are assuming he aint good coz all they see are match highlights. His long balls aint great but since when do they have to be brilliant to be a good full back?
 
Originally posted by Jazz
ashley cole gives it 110% and is a good player, he has been arsenals best player all season, i think too many people are assuming he aint good coz all they see are match highlights. His long balls aint great but since when do they have to be brilliant to be a good full back?
Click to expand...

They don't have to be brilliant to be a good full-back, but as atpbx said, Arsenal wouldn't suffer from losing Cole. They'd Play Lauren/Edu and they'd employ the same system and play just as well.
 
Along with, of course, those players that ARE good players.
Click to expand...

With regards to Wolves, my team, not that anyone cares, the one player who always plays well no matter how crap the rest of the team play is Joleon Lescott. There was talk Spurs were looking at him in the summer :p (though not to be unexpected) but thank gord they didn't buy him. He's been our best player of the season :) but I think he may leave in the summer (as has happened to so many of Wolves better players since way back when, or at least those better than the average Division 1 joe - Robbie Keane, Mark Venus, Paul Jones, Dean Richards, Tim Flowers years ago IIRC and others)

Were good but not any more:
Paul Ince
Dennis Irwin
Alex Rae

Rae was great last season but has lost it this season...Irwin has no pace anymore and Ince has done nothing for us.

Back to the Premiership, I think Ashley Cole *almost* fits into the 'Believed to be good but aren't and never were' bracket because whilst he is very good going forward, defensively he makes a few rash tackles and isn't that good IMHO, often pushes too far forward then when the balls lost cover is short on the left.

Call me insane, but for England I would like to see them try Cole as left wing and Wayne Bridge as left back......at least for a friendly, as this would let Coles attacking play be more prevalent and would give us a left back who can defend and a left winger who almost can :p

Believed to be good but aren't and never were:

Robbie Savage - runs around a lot and does a lot of simple passes. Noticed because he mouths off a lot at anyone and gets stuck in. Does this make him any good? IMHO no.

Peter Ndluv - Remember him? Get ball.....25 yard run with the ball, mazy dribble, tricks a plenty, falls over and loses ball. Repeat ad infinium. At least Faustino Aspria did this and scored occasionally :p

Darius Vassel - Sort of the same as above. Does a lot of flashy touches and runs, but doesn't amount to much over a season. An adequate substitute but never effective enough over a season to be considered a major goalscorer.

All IMHO
 
Hmmmm

Players that teams could do without :

Danny mills ?

Shouldn't think so mate, Mills has never been anything but a medicore player imho. Not to mention Leeds have players that could fill that gap...Kelly for example.

Players that were good but arent anymore :

Ferdinand ? :confused: :eek: (Bitter are we ? :p)

Scholes // Beckham (based on what?)

Veron ? He's having a much better season than last

Players that were never good

DOnt agree with Dyer, Cole or Philips tbh.

I think you should add Brad Friedel to the "Teams that couldnt do without"

He has been pretty much the best keeper in the Prem this season so far, with the exception of maybe Cudicini.......
Saved ROvers' behinds on more than one occasion :)
 
Originally posted by Mcb^in
Hmmmm

Players that teams could do without :

Danny mills ?

Shouldn't think so mate, Mills has never been anything but a medicore player imho. Not to mention Leeds have players that could fill that gap...Kelly for example.

Players that were good but arent anymore :

Ferdinand ? :confused : :eek : (Bitter are we ? : p)

Scholes // Beckham (based on what?)

Veron ? He's having a much better season than last

Players that were never good

DOnt agree with Dyer, Cole or Philips tbh.

I think you should add Brad Friedel to the "Teams that couldnt do without"

He has been pretty much the best keeper in the Prem this season so far, with the exception of maybe Cudicini.......
Saved ROvers' behinds on more than one occasion : )
Click to expand...

Danny Mills' return to the Leeds starting 11 is what started our run. Check out our last 6 matches :) And kelly or anyone else aint close to being as good as Mills. Or anyone else in the prem for that matter :)

Ferdinand, Scholes, Backham and Veron were all names by atpbx, who supports manchester untied. Try reading the thread and you'd know that :)

Cole I don't rate, Phillips was a flash in the pan and Dyer is far too injury prone and is extremely over-rated.

You're right about Friedel. Though he's not done as well as Robbo ;)

Originally posted by silverpaw
Dyer's been taking teams apart recently since his blip at Barca', I get the impression Gilly is gradually knowing less about football on a daily basis : p
Click to expand...

Taking teams apart. Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it. he reminds me of John Barnes - who lives off his performance, nay, just one goal, all his career. It's just that Dyer hasn't scored that goal yet.

And to know that I have no knowledge of football, you'd have to have some :p
 
There's quite a few if you think about it.

Believed to be good but aren't and never were:

Wes Brown - DISAGREE, too young and coming back from a bad injury, how can you judge him?
Nicky Butt - DISAGREE, I always thought he was ' under rated'
Ashley Cole - Disagree, one of the Prem's better players in position. Though I do believe that the MAIN reason is his youthful energy, he never stops running. Wonder how he'll fare after a bad injury like Carr had, or when he's a bit older
Paul Okon - Who ever thought he was good?
Nick Barmby - DISAGREE, Belongs in 'was good, not any more'
Stephane Henchoz
Olivier Bernard - Who ever thought he was good?
Emile Heskey - AGREE, Very good call
Kieron Dyer - Disagree, too young and coming back from a bad injury, how can you judge him?
Danny Murphy - Disagree, there are a lot worse players about, mainly in our ( Spurs ) midfield :(
Kevin Phillips - Disagree, just a loss of form plus a crappy team
Tore Andre Flo - AGREE
Marcus Stewart - AGREE
Noel Whelan - AGREE
Jonothan Greening - DISAGREE, very good player, on his day he can rip your team apart.
Mario Stanic - AGREE
Jesper Gronkjaer - AGREE, good call
Jamie Carragher - DISAGREE, what I've seen of him he seems OK
Celestine Babayaro - AGREE

Add
Smicer
Kanu
Dion Dublin

Were good but not any more:

Stephen Gerrard - DISAGREE, too young to judge like that
Michael Owen - DIGREE, again he's only young, I don't know who you support, is it Leeds? but I bet if your team bought him tomorrow you'd be made up.
Ian Harte - AGREE to a point
David beckham - DISAGREE, wtf?
Paul Scholes - DISAGREE, same as Owen apart from young bit;)
Eirik Bakke - Never was that good anyway
Rio Ferdinand - DISAGREE, wtf?
Mark Viduka - AGREE, good call
Harry Kewell - AGREE, was an amazing player a while back
Roy Keane - DISAGREE
Michael Ricketts - Never been that good
Darius Vassell - DISAGREE, too young to judge
Lee Bowyer - AGREE, seems to have lost the plot. Though I wouldn't mind Spurs taking a gamble on him
Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink - DISAGREE, wtf? still a top goalscorer
John Arne Riise - DISAGREE
Juan Sebastian Veron - DISAGREE, Playing better football recently, just needed more time than most to adjust to Prem
Marcel Desailly - DISAGREE, still better than most in Prem, plus his experience.
David Seaman - AGREE, AGREE, AGREE, AGREE

I'd add..
Tim Sherwood
Teddy Sherringham
Les Ferdinand
Lauren Blanc

Players that teams couldn't do without:

Ruud Van Nistelrooy
Thierry Henry
Danny Mills
Gianfranco Zola
Alan Shearer
Gary Speed - hmmm, maybe.... I suppose
Jonothan Woodgate
Damien Duff
Sami Hyypia
Gareth Southgate - hmmm... wouldn't say he's essential
Sorele Geremi - who?
Patrick Vieira
William Gallas
Shay Given
Paul Robinson
Ryan Giggs

Add
Dean Richards - before you flame me, look what happened to our defence yesterday!
Steven Carr
Sol Campbell
J F Hasselbaink
Beattie - before you flame me, where would Saints be without him?
 
Originally posted by Gilly

There's quite a few if you think about it.

Believed to be good but aren't and never were:

Wes Brown
Nicky Butt
Ashley Cole ,considered soley as a defender i'd agree,but there's more to his game than that
Paul Okon
Nick Barmby
Stephane Henchoz
Olivier Bernard
Emile Heskey -'d put him in were good but aren't now,never delivered for Liverpool,but he was good at Leicester and could be again if played properly
Kieron Dyer Nah,i like him
Danny Murphy -whoever thought he was that good ?
Kevin Phillips
Tore Andre Flo
Marcus Stewart
Noel Whelan
Jonothan Greening
Mario Stanic
Jesper Gronkjaer
Jamie Carragher
Celestine Babayaro

Were good but not any more:

Stephen Gerrard -still good,just in a poorly performing team
Michael Owen - undecided,if he as getting good service and playing as badly as he is then yes
Ian Harte
David beckham -hate to disagree,but have to,he's class
Paul Scholes -as Beckham,but not as much so
Eirik Bakke
Rio Ferdinand Hasn't had a good time at Man U,but still think he's a good player
Mark Viduka
Harry Kewell
Roy Keane -**** another Man U players inclusion that i disagree with :( ,a fool true,but a good player nontheless
Michael Ricketts
Darius Vassell
Lee Bowyer
Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink
John Arne Riise
Juan Sebastian Veron
Marcel Desailly
David Seaman

Players that teams couldn't do without:

Ruud Van Nistelrooy
Thierry Henry
Danny Mills
Gianfranco Zola
Alan Shearer
Gary Speed
Jonothan Woodgate
Damien Duff
Sami Hyypia
Gareth Southgate
Sorele Geremi
Patrick Vieira
William Gallas
Shay Given
Paul Robinson
Ryan Giggs -a great player,but Man U could do without him


Also interested in hearing your guesses as to who will be joining the ranks of these lists next season and the season after. Mssrs Jamie Milner and Wayne Rooney par example.

So these are a list compiled entirely by atpbx and I. Tell us why we are wrong, Tell us where we are wrong. Tell us where you agree and tell us players you would put in your lists.
Click to expand...
 
Cant be bothered to read the entire thread, but Nicky Butt isnt good?

Are you mad,the only reasons peopl dont notice how good he is is due to he never gets a game.

Our best player in the world cup, voted by Eriksson and Pele. But not good enough for OCUK?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom