Playing in front of other people

Nitefly said:
Meh, at Uni my rendition of moonlight sonata got a '....'.

However, when I strummed the three chords to the Googoo Doll's Iris = :eek: :eek: :eek: WOAH!

Crazy world.
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Welcome to the world of fickle audiences.
I suppose the first time in action I saw this was around 1978. We had got ourselves an amazing 16 year old keyboard player and we even bought him a Fender Rhodes and he borrowed my Korg 700s synth.
He'd do some amazing keyboard parts but the last song of the 2nd spot was me doing Telstar on the monophonic synth. Its the type of tune anybody could learn in 5 mins.
To the audience I was a keyboard God and he was nothing and after a while he asked if he could play it.

In another band my mate was a guitar god that went over audiences heads and I'd do the intro to Dire Straits Money For Nothing which obviously made me better than him. We'll forget about the time I'd come out with Apache by The Shadows that turned me into a living legend with audiences while fellow guitarists would shake their heads.

And thats why alexthecheese you shouldn't be afraid of audiences - 99.99% of them know nowt.
 
dmpoole said:
Welcome to the world of fickle audiences.
I suppose the first time in action I saw this was around 1978. We had got ourselves an amazing 16 year old keyboard player and we even bought him a Fender Rhodes and he borrowed my Korg 700s synth.
He'd do some amazing keyboard parts but the last song of the 2nd spot was me doing Telstar on the monophonic synth. Its the type of tune anybody could learn in 5 mins.
To the audience I was a keyboard God and he was nothing and after a while he asked if he could play it.

In another band my mate was a guitar god that went over audiences heads and I'd do the intro to Dire Straits Money For Nothing which obviously made me better than him. We'll forget about the time I'd come out with Apache by The Shadows that turned me into a living legend with audiences while fellow guitarists would shake their heads.

And thats why alexthecheese you shouldn't be afraid of audiences - 99.99% of them know nowt.
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Why on earth do 99.99% of audiences know nowt? They are the people buying the records and seeing the bands live - to not respect it is a vital mistake. Just because something is more technical doesn't mean it is superior. Audiences aren't as fickle as you think - they care about is music that appeals to them, regardless of how good the musician is. Your tone is pretty arrogant imho and I'd be annoyed if I was a fan of a band you were in and heard you say that. Audiences are the people who keep bands alive.
 
jackgnic said:
Why on earth do 99.99% of audiences know nowt? They are the people buying the records and seeing the bands live - to not respect it is a vital mistake. Just because something is more technical doesn't mean it is superior. Audiences aren't as fickle as you think - they care about is music that appeals to them, regardless of how good the musician is. Your tone is pretty arrogant imho and I'd be annoyed if I was a fan of a band you were in and heard you say that. Audiences are the people who keep bands alive.
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I'm allowed to be arrogant after playing to audiences all over the world for the last 37 years.
Tonight we packed a pub out in Nantwich and heres an example of an audience paying attention -
1st song Heatseeker - ACDC - solo all over the place and nobody noticed
2nd song Good Lovin Gone Bad - Bad Company - bass notes all over the place and nobody noticed
3rd song Run to the Hills - Iron Maiden - lyrics all over the place and I failed to hit the high bit on the 2nd chorus
4th, 5th,6th etc etc etc.
I even pointed out mistakes to the audience but nobody is none the wiser.
It is an absolute fact that at least 60% of people are tone deaf but obviously they know what they like.
This is the statistic I use when we haven't learnt a song properly but I still make the band do it because none of the audience will be any the wiser except a couple of musicians at the back but they don't matter because I'm gigging and they're not.
Believe me in going to see bands regular for the last 36 years (1st band Led Zeppelin in 71) I have seen some god awful acts and audiences sit there none the wiser.

I'll give you a brilliant example of a band I went to see the other week.
They apologised before they played it saying they weren't sure if they knew it properly and then they went into Don't Fear the reaper by Blue Oyster Cult.
I can't tell you how bad it was and the band were looking at each other in fear. I looked at the wife, the band looked at me and pulled faces and they ended it quickly. From the applause in the room you would have thought Blue Oyster Cult were there themselves and the band looked at me and I just shrugged my shoulders.

Yes audiences are fickle and just wait until you play in front of a Workingmens Club or British Legion audience.
 
dmpoole said:
I'm allowed to be arrogant after playing to audiences all over the world for the last 37 years.
Tonight we packed a pub out in Nantwich and heres an example of an audience paying attention -
1st song Heatseeker - ACDC - solo all over the place and nobody noticed
2nd song Good Lovin Gone Bad - Bad Company - bass notes all over the place and nobody noticed
3rd song Run to the Hills - Iron Maiden - lyrics all over the place and I failed to hit the high bit on the 2nd chorus
4th, 5th,6th etc etc etc.
I even pointed out mistakes to the audience but nobody is none the wiser.
It is an absolute fact that at least 60% of people are tone deaf but obviously they know what they like.
This is the statistic I use when we haven't learnt a song properly but I still make the band do it because none of the audience will be any the wiser except a couple of musicians at the back but they don't matter because I'm gigging and they're not.
Believe me in going to see bands regular for the last 36 years (1st band Led Zeppelin in 71) I have seen some god awful acts and audiences sit there none the wiser.

I'll give you a brilliant example of a band I went to see the other week.
They apologised before they played it saying they weren't sure if they knew it properly and then they went into Don't Fear the reaper by Blue Oyster Cult.
I can't tell you how bad it was and the band were looking at each other in fear. I looked at the wife, the band looked at me and pulled faces and they ended it quickly. From the applause in the room you would have thought Blue Oyster Cult were there themselves and the band looked at me and I just shrugged my shoulders.

Yes audiences are fickle and just wait until you play in front of a Workingmens Club or British Legion audience.
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lol obviously, you dont have any decent people coming to your gigs, a lot of gigs ive been to, and played have been proper musicians in the crowd, people from the industry, saying youve been playing for 37 years around the world doesnt cut it for me.

today people know what they hear, and know what good musician ship is when it comes to band work.

so what if you have played over the world for 37 years? i know some top musicians, and theyve been doing it on much larger scales than you have... and there attitude is not the same as yours, they know the crowd keeps them alive keeps the food on there tables.
 
We did have some people who asked my band to play some Bryan Adams, Bon Jovi or Stereophonics. I had to explain that it wasn't going to happen while there was still breath left in my body. The joys of being a music snob on the South Wales valleys circuit. :D
 
dmpoole said:
I'm allowed to be arrogant after playing to audiences all over the world for the last 37 years.
Tonight we packed a pub out in Nantwich and heres an example of an audience paying attention -
1st song Heatseeker - ACDC - solo all over the place and nobody noticed
2nd song Good Lovin Gone Bad - Bad Company - bass notes all over the place and nobody noticed
3rd song Run to the Hills - Iron Maiden - lyrics all over the place and I failed to hit the high bit on the 2nd chorus
4th, 5th,6th etc etc etc.
I even pointed out mistakes to the audience but nobody is none the wiser.
It is an absolute fact that at least 60% of people are tone deaf but obviously they know what they like.
This is the statistic I use when we haven't learnt a song properly but I still make the band do it because none of the audience will be any the wiser except a couple of musicians at the back but they don't matter because I'm gigging and they're not.
Believe me in going to see bands regular for the last 36 years (1st band Led Zeppelin in 71) I have seen some god awful acts and audiences sit there none the wiser.

I'll give you a brilliant example of a band I went to see the other week.
They apologised before they played it saying they weren't sure if they knew it properly and then they went into Don't Fear the reaper by Blue Oyster Cult.
I can't tell you how bad it was and the band were looking at each other in fear. I looked at the wife, the band looked at me and pulled faces and they ended it quickly. From the applause in the room you would have thought Blue Oyster Cult were there themselves and the band looked at me and I just shrugged my shoulders.

Yes audiences are fickle and just wait until you play in front of a Workingmens Club or British Legion audience.
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The reason they probably cheered at the end of the BOC song is because they knew the song in the first place. Speople don't care for amazing musicianship, they just want to hear the songs played. You're a covers band, people want to hear the covers whilst having a good time socialising in the pub - don't tell me as soon as you hit the stage immediatly the entire pub stops what they are doing to totally listen to you?! I bet if they were a captive audience they'd realise the mistakes you've made, or if it was a larger scale headlining gig in front of thousands. As soon as you start thinking you're 'above' the audience then you're totally wrong - regardless of if you've been doing it 37 years around the world.
 
Neon said:
so what if you have played over the world for 37 years? i know some top musicians, and theyve been doing it on much larger scales than you have... and there attitude is not the same as yours, they know the crowd keeps them alive keeps the food on there tables.
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I virtually thank each and every one of the people that come through the door to watch my lowly covers band but the fact remains that a lot of people (even proper musicians) don't know what they're listening to. Two of my band members (both the guitarists) play by numbers and they haven't got a clue whats going on around them. You can see them reading tabs in the air and they very rarely make a mistake but when they do its massive because they can only concentrate on what they're doing and not anything else.

jackgnic actually sums it up the best in this comment better than I can ever do.
In fact he's turned full circle and is agreeing with me -

jackgnic said:
The reason they probably cheered at the end of the BOC song is because they knew the song in the first place. Speople don't care for amazing musicianship, they just want to hear the songs played.
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EXACTLY and thats my entire point.
On the night the band played that song a mate of mine came up to me and asked what the song was because it was brilliant. I said couldn't you hear that it was all over the place, the band were embarassed and they had to kill it short. He just replied that he didn't know about things like that :eek:

You summed my point up exactly jackgnic

You're a covers band, people want to hear the covers whilst having a good time socialising in the pub - don't tell me as soon as you hit the stage immediatly the entire pub stops what they are doing to totally listen to you?
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Actually they do. Our audience turns up to listen to us because of the covers we do and I'm getting sick and tired of doing AC/DC covers.
Basically for the first 30 years of my gigging it was done in Workingmens Clubs, Cabaret Clubs, British legions and certain types of pubs where nobody listens because they're waiting for the bingo to come on.
Yes Neon, I have prostituted myself to the hilt and I have played in some dire bands just for money knowing that playing Sultans Of Swing would make the audience angry but doing the Birdy Song would make them smile.
Its nice that for the last 7 years I've been in a band with a following who come to watch us and shut up while we're playing. the only person I see messing with a mobile is our roadie and he's normally playing a game on it but he has watched over 600 gigs so we can let him off.

Neon, you are in a completely different musical world to me where you're playing your own music but you're also in the most back stabbing world to.
You're playing to fellow proper musicians who are more than likely ripping you apart because of jealousy.

Like I say jackgnic summed it up brilliantly.

Wheres Arty and Elvisfan when I need them (two musos who actually gig)?
 
dmpoole said:
Wheres Arty and Elvisfan when I need them (two musos who actually gig)?
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Gigging, of course ;)

dmpoole said:
I'm allowed to be arrogant after playing to audiences all over the world for the last 37 years.
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I don't agree there. I hate arrogance in musicians in any context; a degree of audience respect goes a long way, I've found. I'm a fairly technically competent piano player but the average pub-going audience I play to tend to identify more with guitar solos and singing. Despite that, I've found that if I pull off a fairly good bit of playing even the roughest group of people will listen and appreciate it. Sometimes, I try one of a range of 'fairly sophisticated' tracks that I'm fond of (e.g. Dolphin Dance by Herbie Hancock) and pub-goers who were a moment ago being all lairy for a Stones track stop, take notice and listen. I've had loads of comments from people about how much they enjoyed some of these more off-beat pieces because they allow the musicianship of the individual musicians to shine through more than the standard repertoire.

Some of the worst audiences I've played to have been those comprised largely of musicians. Some of the best have been non-musicians who expect a night of standards and get something more interesting. Yes, some people are tone deaf, but I truly believe everyone has a sense of natural rhythm, so if you can tap into that you can get anyone appreciating good music :)

arty
 
arty said:
I don't agree there. I hate arrogance in musicians in any context; a degree of audience respect goes a long way, I've found.
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I honestly don't know why I said that because I'm one of the most unarrogant people you would meet but I can only vocal 37 years of experiences. I spend a lot of time with my audience and I always make a point of thanking them at least twice a night but I also know that alcohol and being tone deaf plays a massive part in the appreciation of artists.

Some of the worst audiences I've played to have been those comprised largely of musicians. Some of the best have been non-musicians who expect a night of standards and get something more interesting.
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Exactly.
I'm exactly the opposite, I will watch a band and look for all the good bits about them and if they ask I will tell them the bad bits. I NEVER tell a fellow musician what I think of other artists and the only person who ever hears negative thoughts is my wife. Nobody can ever say that dmpoole slagged them off.
On friday I visited the bogs between spots and I can hear two blokes tearing my band apart. They're talking about me being an old screeching fat ****** in shorts, calling my bass player a fat ******* and saying that my lead guitarist wasn't worthy of playing an Ibanez Jem. They then continued to talk about their own band and I walked out of the cubicle. They saw me, went white and I laughed my balls off. One of them tried to apologise but I told them not to bother because if thats what they really thought then its OK.

Yes, some people are tone deaf, but I truly believe everyone has a sense of natural rhythm, so if you can tap into that you can get anyone appreciating good music :)
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Are you sure about that?
Look around a pub and watch people tapping on tables and see how many are out of time :)
 
dmpoole said:
Are you sure about that?
Look around a pub and watch people tapping on tables and see how many are out of time :)
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Yes, I am sure - doesn't mean everyone has a sense of the same rhythm, though :p

arty
 
arty said:
Yes, I am sure - doesn't mean everyone has a sense of the same rhythm, though :p

arty
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That reminds me when I was about 14 and my 16 year old cousin was on the drums and he kept shifting time more than Dr Who.
After a while I had to tell him that he was totally out of time with the 3 guitars and he replied "No, I'm in time, you're out with me" :D

One of my fave drummer stories was a bloke called Gary about 7 years ago.
He had got the arrangement to Saxons 747 song on a piece of A3 on the wall by the side of his drums. We played the song through a week later and I pointed out that he had gone wrong from the arrangement he had wrote down. He then accused me of re-writing the arrangement in his handwriting :eek:
 
Neon said:
saying youve been playing for 37 years around the world doesnt cut it for me.
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This is where me and you will always be different and this is what may hold you back.
If I went to musos who've been playing longer than me and told them that their experience 'doesn't cut it with me' I would expect my name to be vilified locally.
If I went to Arty and told him the same thing I would expect him to think of me as a knob.
And in your short experience if I told you the same I would expect the same treatment.
I listen to everybody around me and respect any musician no matter how long they've been doing it and I would NEVER say "That doesn't cut it for me".
I hope you realise how childish that sounds.
Last night I sat there enthralled by experiences from two blokes out of a Rolling Stones tribute band who are nearly in their 60's and two weeks ago I let a young man I've never seen before take over the mixer when I was setting up the drums - it just so happened he was doing this at University and he taught me a lot.
I sometimes get the impression you think I know everything, I actually know nothing because I'm an open book but I do have experiences to pull from.

Absorb Neon absorb.
 
dmpoole said:
jackgnic actually sums it up the best in this comment better than I can ever do.
In fact he's turned full circle and is agreeing with me -

EXACTLY and thats my entire point.
On the night the band played that song a mate of mine came up to me and asked what the song was because it was brilliant. I said couldn't you hear that it was all over the place, the band were embarassed and they had to kill it short. He just replied that he didn't know about things like that :eek:

You summed my point up exactly jackgnic
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Make no mistake, we agree that audiences want to hear music that appeals to them, but in no way have I turned full circle as that was my initial point in the first place, and in no way do I agree with your licence for arrogance.
 
jackgnic said:
Make no mistake, we agree that audiences want to hear music that appeals to them, but in no way have I turned full circle as that was my initial point in the first place, and in no way do I agree with your licence for arrogance.
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I'm not arrogant towards my audience (forget what I said to Neon).
I made a statement about audiences being fickle and not really knowing what they're listening to.
You disagreed and then put it way better than I could by turning full circle.
These are your words and I agree entirely -

jackgnic said:
The reason they probably cheered at the end of the BOC song is because they knew the song in the first place. Speople don't care for amazing musicianship, they just want to hear the songs played.
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It isn't arrogance, its knowing the audience and knowing what you can get away with.
I love my audiences but I sometimes think they just come to see me wobble all over the stage.
 
I'll take arrogance over ignorance any day. Dmpoole doesn't like people sticking up for him but he has my respect because he goes out there and gets it done, and has done so for a long time.

He knows the score, and if this comes across as arrogance then this is more a problem for the beholder than a reflection on himself.

People who don't sing or play are, generally, clueless. In my world, (Elvis Tribute) it's a bloody nightmare. Elvis recorded over 700 songs and yet I get this load of bull-ordure from people I know (Copied from a post I made on another forum):

Last night I wasn't working (friday gig instead) so I went to look at a club I'm doing in a couple of weeks. Afterwards, I went back to our local for the last ones.

Somebody asked if I'd been working. I told them i'd been looking at a club. This person then proceeds to approach me and starts telling me what my act needs to be like for a big WMC.

I told him I knew, and thank you etc, but I'm quite fine, really, thank you, there's no need to go on , honestly, OK? etc..etc.

He then says, "Well when you did Barlborough Club I only knew about 2 of the songs".

I said, "Well that's hardly my problem. What do you want on a charity night, blood? All I was getting was expenses so I did what i wanted to do. Besides, did you notice the club was full?" (There's usually half a dozen people in)

He said "I'm not saying that, and I know you're a brilliant singer. But you ought to sing more of the greatest hits."

I said "How many shows of mine have you seen?"

"That one at the club last boxing day", he replied

"Boxing day?" I asked, "You mean that Boxing day where I came out and sang Blue Suede shoes, Devil in Disguise, His Latest Flame, Girl Of My Best Friend, GI Blues, It's Now Or Never, Surrender, Viva Las Vegas, and If I Can Dream?

"No, you didn't sing any of them!"

"Well you're not talking about Boxing Day then, are you?" I corrected him.

I then said, "So, you can't remember which show you're criticizing, and you've no idea what other shows of mine were like because you go no further than this village. In fact you didn't come to see me when I did three shows at the pub at the far end of this village?"

"Well I'm not criticizing your show...."

"Yes you are....."

"But I can only go on that one show....."

"Yes but you're only one person."

"Yes, but...-"

"Ne'ermind 'yes but', I'd like to ask you something. Would you go up to any other club act and tell them what to sing?"

"No."

"Why?"

"Well it's their act"

"Exactly, so what makes me the exception?"

"Well it's an Elvis night so people are gonna want to hear the old favourites."

"What about the others who're sick of hearing the oldies? I've just told you: That was one show, and they're not all the same."

I carried on: "Let me tell you something else, I get together with a lot of guys who've been doing this longer than I have. We talk about what works, what doesn't, and what we want them to learn and take home from a show."

"Yes but you lot are probably too focussed on what you like and not what the audience wants..."

" You've simply got no idea what you're talking about. Look I don't want to fall out with you but you're doing a good job so let's leave it at that, shall we?"

"I was just being friendly...."

"Yeah, right :rolleyes: "
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The absolute height of ignorance.
 
ElvisFan said:
The absolute height of ignorance.
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And don't forget that link you gave to another Elvis tribute who is absolutely awful.
The worst thing being that he could go on and sing a greatest hits really badly but that ignorant bloke would like him more.

Got a similar Elvis story I've just thought of.
I was at a place called Smallthorne Pioneer in the 70's and a bloke shouted 'ELVIS' so I proceeded to do Girl Of My Best Friend.
After that he shouted 'Play some Elvis' so I proceeded to play Marie His Latest Flame.
After a couple of songs he gets angry and shouts 'Play some ***** Elvis' so I said from the stage that I'd already done two but proceeded to do Jailhouse Rock.
One song later and he's get really angry and threatening shouting 'Play some ***** Elvis you ****'.
I then did something I shouldn't have done in a Workingmens Club and shouted back at him "WTF is up with you, I've just played 3 ******* Elvis songs?"
He shouts "No you ****** haven't".
I shout "Yes I played GOMBF, MHLF and JR"
He shouts "You haven't played Blue Suede Shoes" :eek:

Please god give me strength.
 
Hehe, just play the drums. Everyone loves the drums. :D

Basically, fast > technical.

But even playing a simple bass, snare, bass, snare beat makes most people go;
'Wow, you're ******* great.'

In a band it's different of course but accuracy is good enough - even if it comes at the cost of flair.

This is of course assuming your band is not professional or somesuch.
 
Also, Gareth Pearson is very good. He's 18 and been playing for four years. :o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDL1HgCPCWQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yknPb-P4v3U

meandgarethpearsonediteyh7.jpg
 
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