Plug socket in water

SkodaMart said:
Technically no that isn’t how it is supposed to be done.
Electrical accessories should not be fixed to kitchen units.
It should be on the wall, behind the unit, with a hole cut for access.
Also your plastic box has a hole in it and the twin & earth cable that supplies it has no mechanical protection.
Technically the outer sheath can be considered but it’s still ‘rough’
Yes I know most kitchens are like this but it’s incorrect.
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Indeed, my sockets for dishwasher and washing machine (also oven) are wall fitted with a blank cover and a spur running to above the worktop and terminating in a singular switch socket to allow simple off/on operation.
 
200sols said:
Where does it say that in the regulations then?
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Have a look at part P of the building regs.
That covers the wiring of domestic properties.

The IEE guide to the building regs state:

wiring accessories (e.g. socket-outlets,switches) should be mounted on the building fabric and not on kitchen furniture.

I would class this as a Cat 3 defect.
Note but not fail the installation.
 
SkodaMart said:
Have a look at part P of the building regs.
That covers the wiring of domestic properties.
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Can you quote it or not? Otherwise stop talking nonsense, sockets are installed in cupboards all the time, in fact it is now the preferred way of doing it.
 
Sockets and water don't mix - Maintance lad at work asked me where I had terminated the earth to our equipment as it had blown up- Told him at main incoming earth -Thats ok he said -Turned out someone had put a double socket on floor in bar of cricket club directly below beer tap.
It seemed people were complaining of shocks while having a shower for months.

By the way the sparky put the double socket under my sink as in picture above- would have been better on right side for me..I have put a strip of gaffa tape across the top of socket just in case.
 
200sols said:
Can you quote it or not? Otherwise stop talking nonsense, sockets are installed in cupboards all the time, in fact it is now the preferred way of doing it.
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the iee electritian's guide to the building regulations page 56
5.2.2 Location of accessories in kitchen
wiring accessories (ie socket-outlets, switches) should be mounted on the building fabric and NOT on kitchen furniture.
 
Yes, provided that they are securely fixed to rigid parts of the units that are not demountable or otherwise liable to be disturbed in normal service. However, care must be taken to comply with all the relevant requirements of BS 7671, including accessibility for inspection, testing and maintenance, and provision of adequate protection against damage (by impact or water for example) for the accessories, equipment and associated wiring.

Regulation number(s):

  • 530.4.2
 
dLockers said:
Yes, provided that they are securely fixed to rigid parts of the units that are not demountable or otherwise liable to be disturbed in normal service. However, care must be taken to comply with all the relevant requirements of BS 7671, including accessibility for inspection, testing and maintenance, and provision of adequate protection against damage (by impact or water for example) for the accessories, equipment and associated wiring.

Regulation number(s):

  • 530.4.2
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Can’t remember the regulation off the top of my head, but check out the one for mounting accessories on wooden patresses.

A clerk of works for social housing wouldn’t allow it.
It’s classed as ‘rough’, although as I’ve said I wouldn’t fail an installation for it providing they are in good condition and not directly under a tap etc.
 
SkodaMart said:
Can’t remember the regulation off the top of my head, but check out the one for mounting accessories on wooden patresses.

A clerk of works for social housing wouldn’t allow it.
It’s classed as ‘rough’, although as I’ve said I wouldn’t fail an installation for it providing they are in good condition and not directly under a tap etc.
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Well firstly, and it is worrying I am having to tell you this:

SkodaMart said:
The IEE guide to the building regs state:
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This book isn't the regs. It is a commercial book interpreting the regs for you. I.e. it has no legal/regulatory basis.

SkodaMart said:
wiring accessories (e.g. socket-outlets,switches) should be mounted on the building fabric and not on kitchen furniture.
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This word highlighted.
 
dLockers said:
Well firstly, and it is worrying I am having to tell you this:


This book isn't the regs. It is a commercial book interpreting the regs for you. I.e. it has no legal/regulatory basis.


This word highlighted.
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As I said, a clerk of works for social housing installations wouldn’t allow it.
Sockets should be fasted to the building fabric with a local, identified point of isolation.
It’s ROUGH not a fail as I have now said 3x
 
SkodaMart said:
As I said, a clerk of works for social housing installations wouldn’t allow it.
Sockets should be fasted to the building fabric with a local, identified point of isolation.
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Only if the clerk of works has read the random book you've read versus the actual regs
 
dLockers said:
Only if the clerk of works has read the random book you've read versus the actual regs
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It’s called basic quality standards, pride in your work and generally not being a lazy ass cheap skate.
If your going to do a job, do it properly.
 
SkodaMart said:
It’s called basic quality standards, pride in your work and generally not being a lazy ass cheap skate.
If your going to do a job, do it properly.
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Ah I see you're just making up quality standards as you go, got it.
 
I'm not sure how that construes as a "lazy ass cheap skate" when it takes considerably more effort to mount the sockets to the kitchen cabinets than it would to the wall.
 
dLockers said:
Ah I see you're just making up quality standards as you go, got it.
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It’s called site experience.
Also where is the accessible point of isolation when the socket is in the back of a cupboard behind 100 beans tins and glass ornaments - which always seems to be the case.
It’s ROUGH
 
SkodaMart said:
It’s called site experience.
Also where is the accessible point of isolation when the socket is in the back of a cupboard behind 100 beans tins and glass ornaments - which always seems to be the case.
It’s ROUGH
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Stick to PAT testing :cry:

Edit: show us your sockets whilst you at it
 
SkodaMart said:
Also where is the accessible point of isolation when the socket is in the back of a cupboard behind 100 beans tins and glass ornaments - which always seems to be the case.
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How is that any different for a wall mounted socket? Where you have the kitchen cupboard in front of it.
 
dLockers said:
Only if the clerk of works has read the random book you've read versus the actual regs
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I have had similar conversations to this with electricians and building inspectors a few times. I clearly cant tar them all with the same brush but Skodamart seems to fall into this camp.

This is a slight tangent to the specific situation in this thread, but they never seem to understand the difference between the IEEE guide to regulations, and the actual law. Part P is SO small that electrical installations are near enough not governed at all, bar a few select circumstances. I had to literally print the Part P regs out for one building inspector over an electrical installation which i did, and ask him to show me which part of the installation requires notification. He started quoting IEEE to me. He eventually admitted that he'll need to pass the building work over email, after telling me that "he'll need to check this out at his office as he is never usually challenged, he thought that electrical work needed certification" :rolleyes: It was absolutely pathetic.
 
If you bought a brand new home would you expect the electrical sockets to be chopped into the wall or thrown into kitchen cupboards?
I rest my case.
 
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