Poll: Poll: UK General Election 2017 - Mk II

[Nitefly]

I do agree with earlier comments about this being like supporting a football team...

lol tories

lol labour

Why are people so unwilling to concede there are pros and cons to both? Nothing wrong with picking a firm favourite but you don't have to make the other to be a pantomime villain!

 

[h4rm0ny]

As my link shows above it gets even less as you earn more. The top few percent only pay 31% tax on average.

31% of £150,000 is a lot more than 20% of £20,000. In fact, that person earning £150,000 is paying tax equivalent to more than eleven such people. Exactly how many people is such a person supposed to equal in your opinion? Is it a moral failure for a person to put in as much as only eleven other people, in your opinion? Fifteen? I'm curious how many in your view a person is supposed to match, in people units. We'll ignore all those people earning less than £11,500 for purposes of this argument as the £150,000 earner would be putting in an infinite number of times more than them. Please answer in actual terms I've used, btw. You have a person standing in front of you who earns £150,000 p/a. You tell them they should pay ___ number of people's tax because of this. Tell us also how that is fair.

 

[dowie]

I do agree with earlier comments about this being like supporting a football team...

lol tories

lol labour

Why are people so unwilling to concede there are pros and cons to both? Nothing wrong with picking a firm favourite but you don't have to make the other to be a pantomime villain!

perhaps even more amusing is when one party proposes a policy that could easily have been proposed by the other and people jump on it... mostly I think due to that football team effect

 

[jonneymendoza]

whichever one u vote for, we are screwed anyway. they are both just as bad as one or another. Which party is more in favour of contractors though?

31% of £150,000 is a lot more than 20% of £20,000. In fact, that person earning £150,000 is paying tax equivalent to more than eleven such people. Exactly how many people is such a person supposed to equal in your opinion? Is it a moral failure for a person to put in as much as only eleven other people, in your opinion? Fifteen? I'm curious how many in your view a person is supposed to match, in people units. We'll ignore all those people earning less than £11,500 for purposes of this argument as the £150,000 earner would be putting in an infinite number of times more than them. Please answer in actual terms I've used, btw. You have a person standing in front of you who earns £150,000 p/a. You tell them they should pay ___ number of people's tax because of this. Tell us also how that is fair.

well said

 

[mrbios]

Why are people so unwilling to concede there are pros and cons to both? Nothing wrong with picking a firm favourite but you don't have to make the other to be a pantomime villain!

For my life, my children and my friends, i can honestly not see one single benefit to voting tory. As a Labour voter, it's not that i don't want to see the benefits, i honestly can't spot one single policy that benefits anyone i know or the country as a whole. Maybe if i went through their manifesto policy by policy i might find one, but in terms of the largest issues facing the country, nothing at all.

EDIT: For clarification on why that is, i work in the public sector, my wife works for the NHS, my children are in public schools, and i strongly believe May is the biggest threat to national security (thanks to reduced policing) right now.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

It isn't. We don't tax the essentials of life and society. You don't charge people for educating children. You want to encourage that as much as possible.

Private education isn't essential. There is an alternative and we don't charge (or levy tax) for state education at the point of consumption. Ergo, private education IS a luxury and should be taxed accordingly.

That is not an argument to lower standards in private schools or put more pressure on public schools by reducing the affordability of private ones.

Levying VAT on private education fees will not lower standards. Yes, it may affect affordability, but Ferrari's are of no lower standard because they are expensive.

You're not giving the best educations to them. They're paying for it themselves. Whilst also simultaneously paying for other people's that their own children will never get use out of because education comes from the general tax pool.

To each according to his needs, from each according to his means.

Apparently not because then they'd be taxed for trying to do so.

What tax would be levied in a free school scenario?

Regarding #1, already answered by me in earlier posts. Like food, we don't tax the essentials of life and society and also because of the societal benefits of private schools being as affordable as possible.

Private education is not an "essential of life" when there is a state provided alternative.



*Disclaimer. My three children attend a private school.

 

[h4rm0ny]

https://marriott-stats.com/nigels-blog/uk-general-election-2017-forecast-1-latest-prediction/

I'm going for something similar to the above. There seems a lot of momentum behind Corbyn but I don't think it'll translate to anything other than social media butthurt following the result.

If Labour loses, I think all can at least agree that there will be nothing more lamentable than the people who complain he lost yet didn't vote and were eligible. IF they turn out, he could win. The polls showing a Tory win are based on expected turn out in the relevant demographics as informed by previous years. For Labour at this point, it hinges on whether the people who say they want it, actually get off their arse or not. I guess if they don't, they didn't want it badly enough.

 

[ubersonic]

Wanting to tax education is adding a barrier to education.

Correct, hence why nobody is talking about that, the tax would only apply to private schools not state schools (which are free, hence there never being a barrier to education).

 

[h4rm0ny]

To each according to his needs, from each according to his means.

"**** That" -- Ayn Rand,

 

[jonneymendoza]

Which party represents contract freelancers better?

 

[Deleted member 66701]

If Labour loses, I think all can at least agree that there will be nothing more lamentable than the people who complain he lost yet didn't vote and were eligible. IF they turn out, he could win. The polls showing a Tory win are based on expected turn out in the relevant demographics as informed by previous years. For Labour at this point, it hinges on whether the people who say they want it, actually get off their arse or not. I guess if they don't, they didn't want it badly enough.

And that's why I'm predicting a Tory majority of 70+. People hurt most by Tory policies tend not to vote, and for those that do vote but still suffer from Tory policies, it hasn't got bad enough for them to switch from the Tories yet. They are still in period of denial.

It will have to get worse before it will get better.

 

[dowie]

Levying VAT on private education fees will not lower standards. Yes, it may affect affordability, but Ferrari's are of no lower standard because they are expensive.

Of course it will, if fewer people can afford to go/sit the entrance exam then the standard/cut off for admission is lower.

Private education is not an "essential of life" when there is a state provided alternative.

Why shouldn't there be choice? And frankly people making use of private schools or private healthcare are saving the state money. If anything they should be getting a tax rebate not additional tax on top of the fees paid.

Frankly I'd rather there were more private schools and parents were given a set amount of money from the government to chose the school they want to send their kids to.

 

[V F]

Quite hilarious reading so many on twitter defending and believing Dianne Abbot is ill.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

Which party represents contract freelancers better?

The Tories since they did a U-Turn on NICs

 

[Roar87]

For my life, my children and my friends, i can honestly not see one single benefit to voting tory. As a Labour voter, it's not that i don't want to see the benefits, i honestly can't spot one single policy that benefits anyone i know or the country as a whole. Maybe if i went through their manifesto policy by policy i might find one, but in terms of the largest issues facing the country, nothing at all.

EDIT: For clarification on why that is, i work in the public sector, my wife works for the NHS, my children are in public schools, and i strongly believe May is the biggest threat to national security (thanks to reduced policing) right now.

Do you not think the cuts to various departments are kind of necessary though as we still, despite all the cuts, spend more money than we take in taxes? Long term are you not worried that your children could inherit an economy similar to that of Greece where massive cuts are completely required and they'll leave the country in a far worse state than we have now?

I feel like a lot of people have just completely forgot how Labour managed the economy last time round. They overspent in the good days then when the economy went into crisis we were left in huge amounts of debt, they do not have any sense of fiscal responsibility.

 

[Skidder]

Which party represents contract freelancers better?

Conservatives.

 

[StriderX]

Do you not think the cuts to various departments are kind of necessary though as we still, despite all the cuts, spend more money than we take in taxes? Long term are you not worried that your children could inherit an economy similar to that of Greece where massive cuts are completely required and they'll leave the country in a far worse state than we have now?

I feel like a lot of people have just completely forgot how Labour managed the economy last time round. They overspent in the good days then when the economy went into crisis we were left in huge amounts of debt, they do not have any sense of fiscal responsibility.

GDP GROWTH is much better than a surplus. But as you'll just keep copy pasting "lol greece", "lol Blair government" and "lol totally not an American crash with consequences". I won't bother.

 

[Rroff]

If Labour loses, I think all can at least agree that there will be nothing more lamentable than the people who complain he lost yet didn't vote and were eligible. IF they turn out, he could win. The polls showing a Tory win are based on expected turn out in the relevant demographics as informed by previous years. For Labour at this point, it hinges on whether the people who say they want it, actually get off their arse or not. I guess if they don't, they didn't want it badly enough.

Anecdotally I find it strange that a lot of people claim the young voters could swing it for Labour - but almost all those I know that are old enough to vote for the first time are looking for a centrist party and find both the Tories and Labour utterly alien to them but won't vote Lib Dem as they don't believe Farron is a strong enough leader.

 

[Neil79]

Quite hilarious reading so many on twitter defending and believing Dianne Abbot is ill.

She made me ill

 

[h4rm0ny]

It doesn't really work like that - entry to most private schools is via a competitive exam and the top few pupils get a scholarship people who don't make the grade get rejected, by pricing them higher you just ensure that the people who go to them need even richer parents. You also end up increasing the costs for the funds used to pay for scholarships both the non means tested ones for academically gifted kids and the means tested ones for kids who can pass the 11+ style entrance exam but whose parents can't afford the fees.

I'm not sure it is correct to assume that all schools are oversubscribed or that this policy will have no impact - that seems to be the standard assumption with the Labour manifesto - that you can introduce taxes and people will all behave just as they did before.

I also don't think taxing people for exercising choice/doing something which saves the state money is a good idea - it isn't very liberal at least.