Porsche Owners Thread - If you own one or just like or hate them! :)

[Gibbo]

Just popping in her briefly.

I have a quick question. Why would a 2007 911 GT3 have had the ceramic discs changed to steel? Would have indicate a hard life and/or not the best maintenance record?

The older 997 ceramics would quickly wear out with track work or even delaminate so many owners either got caught out and had to change them or changed them and put ceramics away for another day.

It’s a GT3 from 2007 chances are it’s done 100’s of track days, the role it was designed for.

If the car is in good condition and fairly priced get it bought not exactly many about for sale any more as most are keepers or in collections.

 

[Gibbo]

After 200 wet motorway miles I had the brief opportunity to see how the tyres performed in the dry today. My goodness, I now understand firstly how good the 911 really is at telling you what’s happening at all four corners and secondly how good these tyres are. The alignment wasn’t wildly out before either. I really didn’t think the difference would be so marked.

There is no more fidgety steering on turn in and the rear is planted. Really confidence inspiring. In a way I’m quite glad I drove the car for some time on sub par tyres as I think I could have got in a lot of trouble with these on. The cornering speeds are quite extraordinary, and my car doesn’t even have a roof!

Glad you like them.
I always get the impression when I try to tell people how good Michelin are that I am on their payroll as they tend to just not believe how much they typically transform a car both in feel and actual grip limits without impacting drive or fun in a car. They generally last longer than any other tyre too.

 

[Gibbo]

Both my Porsches are gone now, will certainly miss them but it seemed to make sense and was right time to sell whilst Porsche prices are still rather inflated.
Enjoyed the GT3 immensely in the four months I had it over Summer and four track days, the car cost me nothing to own, even petrol was probably free.

The Spyder was dropped off with a collector this weekend, owned that car for nearly two years, few track days and thoroughly enjoyed it, again ownership was pretty much free, due to it appreciating a healthy amount.

I shall see how Mclaren life treats me but I suspect I will drop back into a 991.2 GT3 / RS at some point once prices have softened.

 

[Gibbo]

Thanks.

Yes I have a Porsche warranty so I certainly would want to. So, for clarity - are the PS4S N rated, or not?

I had none N rated PS4S on both my C2S and GT3, both under warranty, was never an issue. I guess official stance is warranty void but speak to your local dealer, let them know your thinking of fitting such tyre and will it be an issue?

On my C2S it was Supersports but the N rated options were poorer PS2 and some of not so great tyres, the dealership at the time fully understood I wanted to fit the better tyre and as such turned a blind eye to it I guess.
On my GT3 it had PS4S and I cannot remember if N rated or not, but the PS4S was never approved for GT3 it was either Dunlop or Cup 2, but again the owner prior to me fitted them because he used it as a daily and wanted a tyre which was also OK in the wet, Porsche dealership put him a warranty on the car with PS4S fitted and never mentioned the tyres. So two different dealerships, both seeing common sense.

 

[Gibbo]

Ok that's great - good advice thanks, I'll ask the Porsche dealer - hopefully they can be grown up about it!

End of the day dealers want to sell warranties and want to carry out warranty to work, to make a fuss over the tyres fitted loses them said work and money for carrying out warranty work.

 

[Gibbo]

PS4S, Goodyear Supersports or Continental Sports 7 are all good tyres.

 

[Gibbo]

I like Chris don't get me wrong, but he is ******* expensive, and I'm sure there are equally competent geometry places closer to South Wales.

End of the day if you know what alignment settings you want any garage can do it with a decent alignment machine, there is no black magic to it.

Now of course if garage needs to un-seize suspension components it add more labour and at £100 plus per hour the price will of course go up.

For example when I did the 458 I just took it the local place with a Hunter machine, loaded up the Speciale values and set those on my car but dialled the front toe out back to toe neutral to calm the hyper sensitive steering down a bit, as I say there is no magic about it and on modern cars its pretty easy, the Ferrari is more difficult for camber as your guessing with shim sizes with trial and error but toe is same on every car, turn the nut and tighten once at desired value and do in correct order, give the car a quick move up and down, re-check values. It is 1-2hrs works for most cars, obviously on some its longer if your car uses shims or has seized up at which point your adding on the labour hours.

 

[Gibbo]

Well Gibbo's seem to be. Plenty of other spyders on 2,3 or 4 owners.

Well Gibbo's seem to be. Plenty of other spyders on 2,3 or 4 owners.

Believe mine was a press car, I always fancied one so gave it a try, was no intention of flipping it just a box to tick off, but no complaints about making a few grand when I did sell it either.
The guy I sold it too was a billionaire, multiple properties in Sandbanks and abroad, so he also was not buying to flip, as he had no need for money, in his words he just wanted a car to rag around for a few months and a few trips and he wanted the best one spec wise which of course is manual, bucket seats and ceramics which are very rare.

He has now since sold the car back to a previous owner so its now on 12/13 owners. Amazing car, yeah the roof is a pain but I sold it simply due to chopping and changing often and lack of space to just keep adding. 987 Spyder and Cayman R are just about the most fun you can have on a B road in a Porsche, a 997.2 GT3 RS is also pinnacle road Porsche, even though its track car. The newer cars got bigger and longer geared which for me impacted their fun ability on a British road greatly.

 

[Gibbo]

I could ask this on 911UK as I'm a member, but I don't want to because I'm lazy and there seem to be some knowledgeable people on here. Is there any reason not to go for a 991.2 over a 991.1? Aside from the facelift and updated tech and turbo engine (I'm not that bothered about NA vs Turbo) is it that much better? Does the aerokit carry a premium? Any must-have options, given that everything is an option?

Just drive both, and you pick the one you prefer.

 

[Gibbo]

Spyder RS

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Agree with his findings for a fun road car probably their best product alongside the 718 Spyder manual.

 

[Gibbo]

Indeed, definitely a bad dealer, but I’m not alone. Many dealers have pulled the same stunts with others. Porsche used to be very good to deal with, and they were some of the last dealers over here to start being stupid with allowing over MSRP.

Sadly it’s perfectly legal in the US for dealers to charge huge markups, and for whatever reason, people keep paying it. I have never paid over MSRP for any car (~100 of them now), and refuse to change that now.

Agreed, I'd never pay over MSRP for a new car, principles and all that.
Porsche are to blame though, because they allow it to happen, it is rife in the UK as well just dealers go about it differently, sell the car at MSRP to a trusted customer, said customer hands it back a few months later for a nice profit and then dealer sells its lightly used for a hansom profit as well, very clear what is happening but Porsche do nothing. There are several owners do it multiple times it seems so Porsche are also not then black listing a customer who does it. I think to an extent this is what Ferrari do but they are all guilty of it.

It is a shame because out of all the manufacturers out there I'd say now only Porsche, Mclaren, Lotus and Caterham are building brand new cars that are still about true driving feel. Most other manufacturers now just want to offer up their sporty cars but they drive nothing like a sports car, latest M2 is very evident of this, entire car felt rubbery in the way it drove, nothing was direct or involving, its an M car, very underwhelming. Problem is those left still making true drivers cars all have issues, Porsche is the flippers game, Mclaren is very expensive and limited model lineup, Lotus neither engine is particular great and Caterham well too extreme for 99.9% of customers.

This is the exact reason why so many old car values have rocketed, yes its an element of nostalgia and people who grew up always wanting one, but its also people realising the older stuff drives how you expect a car to drive but more importantly are fun to drive within the speed limits.

/rant over.

 

[Gibbo]

Sold my Porsches at right time, glad I did but its happening across entire market, just Porsche prices are dropping more as there bubble has been due an almighty POP for sometime now.

A year ago a 992 GT3 fetched overs around 250k, plenty for sale now around 170k, that means trade will now be circa 130-140k on those, anyone silly enough to pay 250k on one has gotten burnt.
GT4 RS just a few months ago were 200k plus, plenty now for sale around 170k

Used car sales slowed big time and there is plenty of inventory to pick from, buyers market for sure, if I was buying a 992 GT3 I'd be doing cheeky 140-150k offers, probably be someone desperate to sell who needs to be out and can see GT4 RS dropping more too.

Not that I am buying but if I was have to say I'd really struggle between a 992 GT3 manual and a GT4 RS on which one to buy....though saying that totally pointless for me as I'll keep the 600 LT Spider, far more car than these glorified beetles.

 

[Gibbo]

Yeah the one that is £47k off is a fully loaded £177k car on the configurator with pretty much every option box ticked so too ridiculous for most people but its up for sale at £130k. It does mean though that people like you know who might have bought sensibly specced ones for £150k-£160k should be looking now that their starting point is less than £130k and used is maybe closer to £100k and will have lost £50-£60k depreciation in just a few months. :O

Currently 20 718 GTS 4.0 for sale across the country at Porsche dealerships unregistered. I notice they are all list price though and no price drops yet. But it wont be long as they sit there unsold.

Rumour is Porsche has a serious overstock issue on these and within certain groups the trade prices banded around are in the 70-80k region, so its an absolute blood bath.

 

[Gibbo]

We're taking a 718 GT4 on a test this Friday. Porsche in Newport have a manual in budget and a PDK not in budget. I want to try both and my pre-test preference is manual so we're taking that one out first.

My "want list" is manual maybe, PDLS lights, clubsport so seats and cage, Carbon or steel discs but the interior stitching has to match the caliper colour. The one were testing has all the desired bits except its silver which isn't my first choice on colour and crayon stitching, again not my first choice. Gentian blue with steel discs and red stitching is my first choice. Black with carbons and yellow stitching looks nice but I'm not sold on the black.

I've explained I'm not currently in a position to buy as I have to sell 2 cars to fund the GT4. I've put one up for the sale, Evo which is at the top end of the market for them but have interest near to asking. The other is my Impreza. I've explained to the dude that the GT4 has got to seriously win me over for me to part with it. Might sound daft but it's genuinely going to be hard to let it go.

987.2 Cayman R, 981 GT4 and 718 GT4 are all fabulous cars. If you decide on manual then 981 or 718 is a great choice buy whatever is right spec / money for you. For me the manual is a bit long geared at around 84mph in 2nd gear and 115mph in 3rd, so quite hard to enjoy the engines full range on the public road, or at least legally.
718 PDK is shorter geared but saying that it is still long but they are superb cars, with Porsche extended warranty (about £750 a year) are rather cheap cars to run and very practical as long as you only require two seats.

If the GT4 RS drop to sub 120k in another year or so I may let the 600 LT go next year to try one, as they have the 9000rpm GT3 motor and the GT3 RS PDK gearing so much shorter, just need to get some seat time in one as the 600 LT been a Spider is like owning two cars in one and every time I drive it I am smiling whether it be 20mph or near 200mph, will take a lot to beat it.

 

[Gibbo]

@EddScott if your not a badge snob then maybe give an Alpine A110S a try, check the boots are large enough for your needs but just if your thinking 4.0 GTS or GT4, considering a lightly used A110S is 50k you'd be saving money and get to keep the WRX alongside maybe.

For me I'd summarise:
A110S - Similar to PDK but better in AUTO, does not try to hit 7th as quick (particular in sport), on paddles nearly as good as PDK, responsive enough. Far lighter in weight (1100kg) so far more eager to turn in, make sure you test drive a car on Cup 2 ideally and overall great handling, awesome on track and very cheap to track, put XP8 pads in and high temp brake fluid and the brakes are fine on track with no negatives on road. 40mpg, £500 to service and warranty, maybe one to try if the boots are big enough. 300PS, 4.2s to 60 not too far off GT4 pace from been on drives out with my mates 718 GT4 PDK and on track, the GT4 does edge it at higher speeds. Give one a try you may like it.

GT4 - Its a GT4 so you get the whole I own a Porsche and its a GT4, maybe a good feeling, much bigger boots, better soundtrack been an NA 4.0, is a bit quicker, carbon ceramics are nice but steels have more feel and modulation, also much cheaper to replace. 718 PDK 75-90kl depending on spec, a little more expensive to run but not outrageous, relatively comfortable, PDK is a must for me in GT4 as the manual does my head in with long gearing.

GTS - If the manual has shorter gearing maybe an option, just for me always felt they looked a bit too plain, I do love the looks of GT4 with wing etc, why our A110S has aero kit, but GTS is a very rounded car, works great on road and pretty well on track.

991.1/2 GTS - Is a great recommendation, from memory gearing is shorter in PDK and they are such a great rounded car, big frunk, back seats too. Options are important though as there are lots of stuff that impacts the drive like sport chassis, the fancy diff's and fancy ARB's cannot remember the Porsche names but there is a few options that are a must for a drivers car, Aerokit is cool addition too. I'd go 991.1 for the NA engine!

991.1 GT3 - Fabulous cars, can be had from 80k privately, G-series motor important, but do some reading up as I think Porsche extended the goodwill period from 10 years upto 15 years, you can also continue to add extended warranty beyond this I believe, so as long as you keep it under warranty, the engine is covered if out the goodwill periods. The 991.1 GT3 has the best motor of all the above, it makes the car, GT4 rides a little better and has an extra boot but GT3 has loads of space behind seats, they drive just fine on the road and the PDK is not too leggy and are absolute beast on track. If there is warranty and you can get one for around 80k I'd give it serious consideration because a well purchased 991.1 GT3 I cannot see values dropping sub 70-75k in honesty apart from leggy high mileage examples. Whereas I do see 718 GT4's dropping into the 55-60k region in another year or two and GTS cars will drop more potentially.

 

[Gibbo]

@Gibbo - Can’t believe the 991.1 GT3 is overlapping in price with the 996 GT3! I love the 996, but surely you’d never buy one over a 991?!

I like my older cars but the 996 GT3 never impressed me, M3 CSL all the way over it.

997.2 GT3 is peak road GT3 and still fabulous on track.

To answer your question 991 GT3 always over a 996. The 991 is a far superior road car and faster on track. 991 are great value even more so if you find one with a G series motor.

991.2 GT3’s are the holy grail hence why values have held strong whilst many other Porsches are crashing in price. The 991.2 GT3 RS were 200k two years ago and are still 200k today. Whilst 992’s are crashing down!

A 992 GT3 RS just sold retail for 270k, trade around 240k.

Consider what less than a year ago some flipped for 400-500k whoever purchased those flippers made a very bad decision!

 

[Gibbo]

992.2 GT3 out next week, gone a few seconds quicker around the Ring than the 992.1.

RS engine and few other tweaks.

More unobtanimum

Overs market is over though.

GT4 RS already in the 120's now. RS Spyders already under list as well.

Even a 718 GT4 for sale here for 62k:

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Its a comfort spec but a good example.


We always said the bubble would burst and even though entire market is correcting, the correction on some Porsche models is big, though 997 generation GT cars are very firm.

If I move the 600 LT on next year I will be considering getting into a 997.1 GT3 RS or 997.2 GT3, but will also consider a 718 Spyder RS.

 

[Gibbo]

These just don't seem to be selling. If my budget was £130K then I think I'd rather a 991.2 GT3 over the 4RS

I did bid on a .2 GT3 on Collecting Cars with .1 money but it went over

Speaking with Porsche Leeds later today regarding a GT4 they have. Crayon Clubsport, PDK, 5800miles, 3 owners, Steels, Bose, PDLS+ - everything I want but doesn't have the red interior stitching. It's up for £82,890 which is well within budget.

Not sure if it has PPF so will make that at least one condition of sale if I can. It doesn't have the GT4 badge on the back which I'd like put on. I'd like to change the shifter to the RS one, I think you can order them through Porsche so will ask about that.

My mate is selling his crayon GT4 from memory it is PDK, 10k miles, 2 owners, ceramics, PDLS+, buckets, Bose, not sure if its clubsport as its got the carbon seats, but no rear cage, think he was after 80k from memory and he got it due to high spec having the ceramics, PDLS+ etc and his does have red interior stitching with custom seat inserts.

If you were interested I could drop him a message.

 

[Gibbo]

Wow a new seat and 8% shorter gear ratios, EVERYTHING i've ever wanted.....


This, even for Porsche, is a joke.

Basically an RS without daft wings, and gains a frunk plus manual option.

Overs though, doubtful modern Porsches are getting slaughtered at moment values wise bubble truly popped.