Porsche Owners Thread - If you own one or just like or hate them! :)

Gibbo · 30 Dec 2013 at 17:43

Hi there

This is why a warranty is crucial on a Porsche and those older 996 Turbo's which are now cheap and beyond ability of getting a warranty for, keep them well serviced or you could face this:-

That was the bill just for the parts with discount! The labour was an additional 7k.

The owner was even under warranty, but Porsche tried to wriggle out of it, but in the end the owner won and Porsche covered the 30k bill.

Not even the Metzger is bullit proof, read full story here:-
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...6293&nmt=997+turbo+Gen+1+seized+Mezger+engine

Porsche are really sensational to drive, but any ownership should be with eyes wide open as an engine failure or gearbox could cost you more than the car cost. :eek:

ironman · 30 Dec 2013 at 17:52

It's these potential bills that scare me about owning a 911 out of warranty. I'd love a 997 GT3 RS

Housey · 30 Dec 2013 at 17:57

In the same way chap I know has just clocked 106K on his 996 GT3 Mk1 and at a recent full leak test it was bang on the money and bang on the bhp of a new one and this is a car he takes round the ring in sub 8 minutes.

ironman · 30 Dec 2013 at 20:47

What do you put it down to then? Are there certain engines or models that are better to own?

Gibbo · 30 Dec 2013 at 21:02

gurdas said:
What do you put it down to then? Are there certain engines or models that are better to own?

Porsche service intervals are too far apart is the general consenus on an older engine.

As Housey's mates car is a track driven GT3 it probably enjoys regular oil changes and the engine is treated with care and used to it's full potential.

My 911 has one of the not so great engines, but I've given it regular oil changes and driven to it's full potential, only Vpower etc. It's engine showing none of the symptoms of issue even after loads of track days, fingers crossed it stays that way.

In short warm them up properly, when warm use the engine to it's full ability within reason, don't make any money shifts, regular oil changes and servicing with good fuel.

Service it only every 20k miles, give it carp fuel, don't warm it up properly, use it for trips to shops or town driving. Then expect it more likely to throw a huge bill. They hate short journeys and not being used regular.

3.4 S is believe to weakest for IMS failure and bore scoring between 1999-2005 if remember, then 3.8 S for same years. 2006-2008 builds got updated IMS but could still suffer bore scoring and do. The 2.7l and 3.6l from same year were better for bore scoring but could still throw the IMS.

The newer DFI engine after 2008/2009 were far more reliable, no IMS so impossible to fail and very unlikely to bore score unless severely miss treated.

The GT3 and Turbo engines are metzger, race derived engine and much stronger, but as the bill above shows can still fail, but less likely. Turbos are a nightmare as so many other things can break and they are all big bills.

997's are still under warranty so have warranty especially if spending 50k or more!

SDK^ · 30 Dec 2013 at 21:55

Gibbo said:
In short warm them up properly, when warm use the engine to it's full ability within reason, don't make any money shifts, regular oil changes and servicing with good fuel.

The owner of the failed 997 you linked to did all of the above.

I read through the PistonHeads thread. It's interesting how Porsche log the engine usage, MAX RPM's used etc. Although it seems the system is unreliable as proved by an owner & Porsche dealership.

I think it's shocking that despite having a valid warranty, that it's taken 5 months to resolve the issue. Especially given the costs of ownership involved.

Gibbo · 30 Dec 2013 at 22:09

SDK^ said:
The owner of the failed 997 you linked to did all of the above.

I read through the PistonHeads thread. It's interesting how Porsche log the engine usage, MAX RPM's used etc. Although it seems the system is unreliable as proved by an owner & Porsche dealership.

I think it's shocking that despite having a valid warranty, that it's taken 5 months to resolve the issue. Especially given the costs of ownership involved.

His was a metzger engine, my advice is more towards to the older NA water-cooled engines found in the boxsters, caymans and Carreras.

The engine logs is unreliable, my engine logs got corrupted due to exhaust being welded as garage never disconnected battery. OPC tried to void my warranty due to saying the ECU had being tampered with or remap. I proved to them a remap does not touch that part of the ECU and they were able to pull the ECU log from each time it had visited them. The logs proved the car went from like 40,000 miles to 250,000 miles based on hours between visits about 6 weeks apart. During that period was when my exhaust had being welded due to bracket snapping.

They then admitted welding on the car around exhaust can on rare occasions corrupt the ECU's log counter for hours and over-revs, they carried out warranty work, but it was a pain. Hence I did not re-knew warranty. I took it to a specialist who said they'd seen the issue before and were able to fix the readings and set them to what they should be.

But yes this logging for over-revs they do to try and get out of warranty is a poor show as it can become corrupted or wrong and it can clearly be changed by individuals who know what they are doing......

Peerzy · 30 Dec 2013 at 22:10

I'm waiting for my engine to blow up and Porsche to be complete and utter ***** about it, just to confirm that nobody with a soul works at an OPC.

Not that I have any reason to suspect it's got issues, it's a 2007 3.4l so no idea if they are known for having problems. On 70k now without any signs of issues but my journeys tend to be short.

PS Gibbo you might be of help - I love the engine in my car, but it's going shortly and I need to replace it with something of the same power (whilst avoiding the Porsche tax and expensive purchase price), any advice?

Gibbo · 30 Dec 2013 at 22:16

Peerzy said:
I'm waiting for my engine to blow up and Porsche to be complete and utter ***** about it, just to confirm that nobody with a soul works at an OPC.

Not that I have any reason to suspect it's got issues, it's a 2007 3.4l so no idea if they are known for having problems. On 70k now without any signs of issues but my journeys tend to be short.

Yes they can, but your warranty so are you bothered? It's a standard car, you don't track it and you stick to service schedule, so what's to worry.

If it was not under warranty, then just change the oil every 6k miles instead of 20k, fit a low temp stat and use only Vpower, that way you've done what you can to prevent bore scoring. I did this even with a warranty, I wanted best for my car, I even went as far as upgrading the cooling system with a 3rd radiator as it's proven the engine develops hot spots due to poor cooling design. Extra radiators, lower stat help are proven to help prevent this.

Simon talked about the flaws these engines have, it's dilution of the oil film by fuel mixing with the oil and not getting burnt off on short journeys. Thus reducing oil film and more likely hood of scoring. Hence if your doing short journeys more regular oil changes are a must to prevent this dilution.

Peerzy · 30 Dec 2013 at 22:19

Gibbo said:
Yes they can, but your warranty so are you bothered? It's a standard car, you don't track it and you stick to service schedule, so what's to worry.

If it was not under warranty, then just change the oil every 6k miles instead of 20k, fit a low temp stat and use only Vpower, that way you've done what you can to prevent bore scoring. I did this even with a warranty, I wanted best for my car, I even went as far as upgrading the cooling system with a 3rd radiator as it's proven the engine develops hot spots due to poor cooling design. Extra radiators, lower stat help are proven to help prevent this.

Simon talked about the flaws these engines have, it's dilution of the oil film by fuel mixing with the oil and not getting burnt off on short journeys. Thus reducing oil film and more likely hood of scoring. Hence if your doing short journeys more regular oil changes are a must to prevent this dilution.

It's completely under warranty for another 18 months but I've learnt not to trust the OPC with anything recently. Any issues I've had for the last 6 months I've had my own garage check out first as my OPC seem unable to tell the truth.

I think I would seriously be worried if I had to rely on the warranty in the next 3 months.

Gibbo · 30 Dec 2013 at 22:40

Peerzy said:
It's completely under warranty for another 18 months but I've learnt not to trust the OPC with anything recently. Any issues I've had for the last 6 months I've had my own garage check out first as my OPC seem unable to tell the truth.

I think I would seriously be worried if I had to rely on the warranty in the next 3 months.

I found OPC pretty good, ok they were pretty crap when the ECU corrupted, but on a whole they were fine.

Fact is you have a warranty, it's not modified, you have not buzzed then engine or missed shift you would be fine and if they denied a claim they'd eventually have to pay out. Or just use a different OPC.

theone8181 · 31 Dec 2013 at 10:01

Gibbo said:
Porsche service intervals are too far apart is the general consenus on an older engine.

As Housey's mates car is a track driven GT3 it probably enjoys regular oil changes and the engine is treated with care and used to it's full potential.

My 911 has one of the not so great engines, but I've given it regular oil changes and driven to it's full potential, only Vpower etc. It's engine showing none of the symptoms of issue even after loads of track days, fingers crossed it stays that way.

In short warm them up properly, when warm use the engine to it's full ability within reason, don't make any money shifts, regular oil changes and servicing with good fuel.

Service it only every 20k miles, give it carp fuel, don't warm it up properly, use it for trips to shops or town driving. Then expect it more likely to throw a huge bill. They hate short journeys and not being used regular.

3.4 S is believe to weakest for IMS failure and bore scoring between 1999-2005 if remember, then 3.8 S for same years. 2006-2008 builds got updated IMS but could still suffer bore scoring and do. The 2.7l and 3.6l from same year were better for bore scoring but could still throw the IMS.

The newer DFI engine after 2008/2009 were far more reliable, no IMS so impossible to fail and very unlikely to bore score unless severely miss treated.

The GT3 and Turbo engines are metzger, race derived engine and much stronger, but as the bill above shows can still fail, but less likely. Turbos are a nightmare as so many other things can break and they are all big bills.

997's are still under warranty so have warranty especially if spending 50k or more!

I think they only made 3.6l on 996's, i think a 3.8l was on the newer 997's. I have no warranty on my turbo but the rough figure for an ims failure on a 3.4l was around 1% and 5% for the 3.6l. I will see how i get on as its 2001 so i would have to go aftermarket warranty anyway. I dont believe they are likely to fail (touches wood).

Edit: reading that it sounds like my car has the weaker engine in it, it doesnt its a meztger.

Edit 2: That guy said his engine seized, however if thats due to an oil leak did it just suddenly happen or was he ignoring the warning message that comes up with low oil. I didn't want to read all 30 pages and wondered if you knew all the details?

Gibbo · 31 Dec 2013 at 10:31

theone8181 said:
I think they only made 3.6l on 996's, i think a 3.8l was on the newer 997's. I have no warranty on my turbo but the rough figure for an ims failure on a 3.4l was around 1% and 5% for the 3.6l. I will see how i get on as its 2001 so i would have to go aftermarket warranty anyway. I dont believe they are likely to fail (touches wood).

Edit: reading that it sounds like my car has the weaker engine in it, it doesnt its a meztger.

Edit 2: That guy said his engine seized, however if thats due to an oil leak did it just suddenly happen or was he ignoring the warning message that comes up with low oil. I didn't want to read all 30 pages and wondered if you knew all the details?

I think you got it wrong way round, certainly more reports on 3.4l failures than 3.6l it seems.

3.6l was still used in the Carrera none S cars.

You have a turbo, its a Metzger and a superb engine, the chance of failure on that engine is like below 1% I think, so don't worry about it, just drive it and enjoy it.

I've stopped worrying about mine, I drive it, enjoy it and maintain it to a level well above what Porsche recommend, basically more oil changes, let it warm up before revving it hard and fill only with Vpower along with my additional engine cooling modifications.

theone8181 · 31 Dec 2013 at 14:38

Gibbo said:
I think you got it wrong way round, certainly more reports on 3.4l failures than 3.6l it seems.

3.6l was still used in the Carrera none S cars.

You have a turbo, its a Metzger and a superb engine, the chance of failure on that engine is like below 1% I think, so don't worry about it, just drive it and enjoy it.

I've stopped worrying about mine, I drive it, enjoy it and maintain it to a level well above what Porsche recommend, basically more oil changes, let it warm up before revving it hard and fill only with Vpower along with my additional engine cooling modifications.

I realise that lol, i tend to fill up on shell anyway (i think theres is vpower). I just meant there was no 3.8l on 996s

. I do enjoy it, unfortunatly atm with it getting dark early that means people tend to drive really slowly but thats another thread

. Best daily driver for work tho :cool:

.

Edit: i do think that 20,000 miles is far to long between servicing, i get mine done every 10k which is about a years mileage, balls to devaluing a car by using it.

SoliD · 13 Jan 2014 at 21:46

Bad times this morning, start the car up and get the battery/generator warning light come on. That's not good, thought i'd try to see if it was just a temp thing so drove round the block to see if the voltage would pick up after the initial start up, nothing just kept dropping and dropping

Washed the car yesterday which reading online looks as though some water may have got into the alternator area, and it could be the alternator (hopefully worse case) or the voltage regulator. Old man is going to take it apart tomorrow for me and go down and get it looked at by an auto electrician. Hope it's not too bad!

Gibbo · 13 Jan 2014 at 21:55

SoliD said:
Bad times this morning, start the car up and get the battery/generator warning light come on. That's not good, thought i'd try to see if it was just a temp thing so drove round the block to see if the voltage would pick up after the initial start up, nothing just kept dropping and dropping

Washed the car yesterday which reading online looks as though some water may have got into the alternator area, and it could be the alternator (hopefully worse case) or the voltage regulator. Old man is going to take it apart tomorrow for me and go down and get it looked at by an auto electrician. Hope it's not too bad!

Exactly how mine went m8, washed it like I always do, couple of days later, generator fault, whatever you do don't continue driving like I did, because if yours is a fly by wire when it goes, it leaves you stranded.

Mine unfortunately had to have the alternator replaced as the voltage regulator cheaper fix was no use for mine, so a reconditioned alternator and I think it was £380 or £480 later. Rip off money, I did not try shopping around as I got recovered to a specialist so paid the price, plus Porsche wanted closer too £1000, lol.

Still its just a Bosch unit and no doubt used on other cars where it can be had for sub £100, so shop around, also pretty damn easy to fit and install too, airbox out, belt off and you've got access, anything in the way, just remove that too and then reverse.

Good luck!

SoliD · 13 Jan 2014 at 22:03

Gibbo said:
Exactly how mine went m8, washed it like I always do, couple of days later, generator fault, whatever you do don't continue driving like I did, because if yours is a fly by wire when it goes, it leaves you stranded.

Mine unfortunately had to have the alternator replaced as the voltage regulator cheaper fix was no use for mine, so a reconditioned alternator and I think it was £380 or £480 later. Rip off money, I did not try shopping around as I got recovered to a specialist so paid the price, plus Porsche wanted closer too £1000, lol.

Still its just a Bosch unit and no doubt used on other cars where it can be had for sub £100, so shop around, also pretty damn easy to fit and install too, airbox out, belt off and you've got access, anything in the way, just remove that too and then reverse.

Good luck!

I done about 200 yards, didn't want to, if it is dead I will be taking it to Porsche as it is less than 3 years old and see if they will make a contribution! Hope it is only the regulator, don't really need the cost of the alternator, but at least I can do it myself if it is!

Just found reconditioned on design911 for £272 for a Bosch unit!

Gibbo · 13 Jan 2014 at 23:19

SoliD said:
I done about 200 yards, didn't want to, if it is dead I will be taking it to Porsche as it is less than 3 years old and see if they will make a contribution! Hope it is only the regulator, don't really need the cost of the alternator, but at least I can do it myself if it is!

Just found reconditioned on design911 for £272 for a Bosch unit!

Not a bad price, did I miss something then? Last time I could swear you had a 996 Targa, you got a new car now? If so please do show or link me as I clearly missed it.

SoliD · 13 Jan 2014 at 23:23

Gibbo said:
Not a bad price, did I miss something then? Last time I could swear you had a 996 Targa, you got a new car now? If so please do show or link me as I clearly missed it.

You aren't it had a new engine 6 months before I got it.

SoliD · 14 Jan 2014 at 18:36

So £340 for a refurbed unit from design911.