Possible redundancy letter

[Gray2233]

Op, if you want to play a real game and you are only a few weeks from 2 years - go sick.

I was about to say something similar, if you're only a few weeks out go on the sick.

"Mental health issues"

Jack **** they can do about it and it's a scummy damned practice on their end, they might still try to get you out of the door but you'll walk with a lot more recompense from the redundancy. You can spend your "sick" period looking for other jobs to boot, just don't say a damn word about that to your employer.

Request the sick note for whatever the period is to take you over the two year mark, it's largely automated now and can be done online.

Hell, even if you're not overly close I'd still be tempted to take a couple of weeks out of spite, and then use that to look for work/legal advice.

 

[mattw12345]

I was about to say something similar, if you're only a few weeks out go on the sick.

"Mental health issues"

Jack **** they can do about it and it's a scummy damned practice on their end, they might still try to get you out of the door but you'll walk with a lot more recompense from the redundancy. You can spend your "sick" period looking for other jobs to boot, just don't say a damn word about that to your employer.

Request the sick note for whatever the period is to take you over the two year mark, it's largely automated now and can be done online.

Hell, even if you're not overly close I'd still be tempted to take a couple of weeks out of spite, and then use that to look for work/legal advice.

It is speculation as to what they will say, though I think the sense here is that the writing is on the wall. I'm definitely thinking at a minimum that I take some sick leave to actually see if I can get some legal representation at the meeting. But if this could actually work as an option then it may he worth considering.

 

[Gray2233]

It is speculation as to what they will say, though I think the sense here is that the writing is on the wall. I'm definitely thinking at a minimum that I take some sick leave to actually see if I can get some legal representation at the meeting. But if this could actually work as an option then it may he worth considering.

The longer you consider the less time you have, I'd flat out go on the sick if termination is on the table for the meeting. You want to head off the meeting itself, and don't get me wrong this isn't the sort of advice I'd normally give in your situation but from the information you've given your employers are less than trustworthy. Your particular role isn't the safest in the current market either, people are outsourcing left and right unfortunately.

Going on the sick after getting handed your papers wont do much for you.

They aren't your friends, the people you work with aren't some sort of family.

 

[Mr Badger]

It is speculation as to what they will say, though I think the sense here is that the writing is on the wall. I'm definitely thinking at a minimum that I take some sick leave to actually see if I can get some legal representation at the meeting. But if this could actually work as an option then it may he worth considering.

I would suggest it's a bit of an either/or situation and you need to get your head around what approach you want to take. If you want to try and keep your job then you probably need to attend the meeting. If you think it's already game over and you can get a long sick note then by all means do that. But expecting to get signed off and then return to work at a later date and engage successfully with your employer might be a bit optimistic. Unless of course they are actually going to be decent about everything and you are just being unnecessarily paranoid...

The other thing to consider is your sick pay entitlement. If it is only the statutory minimum, then that option looks less attractive than if you will be receiving (say) full pay for a month.

 

[EvilRob]

I wouldn't play games, despite the company acting poorly. There's no point turning a regretful redundancy into a no rehire flag and possibly making it something people you run into again in future remember. It's a small world.
What is going over the 2 year mark really going to get him - a right to be included in any consultation if there are enough people being laid off and 2 weeks pay at max £700 a week? He may be getting some sort of package anyway.

 

[Journey]

If you are very sure that a pre-2 year redundancy is on the cards, I'd also say get a 4 week sick note for stress, and something that highlights you need to stay away from anything to do with work. Depending on your contract you'll end up with 4 weeks of full pay vs. potentially nothing if they dump you on Tuesday morning.

You'll never have it mentioned by anyone else, as the employer can't legally do/say anything about you going off sick to anyone, and you'll never need to mention it to anyone yourself, as the overlap would be small to notice on a CV for end of contract date. Take the time to look for other work, see what is out there, maybe you'll find something straight away.

 

[Rroff]

The 2 year deadline adds an ominous note to it, but unless a template message a bit odd to talk about representation if it is a simple get rid of you before you gain full rights to a redundancy process and then the claims it isn't a disciplinary process but talks about representation, also kind of odd to hold a disciplinary process virtually unless that is how the business mostly operates.

Though termination is probably a high chance sounds more to me like they are either planning on making unpopular changes to the terms of the contract using the threat of termination, real or bluff, to try and make you accept them, or planning on making the role "redundant" so as to fill another gap in the company - probably an unpopular position no one wants.

 

[mattw12345]

The 2 year deadline adds an ominous note to it, but unless a template message a bit odd to talk about representation if it is a simple get rid of you before you gain full rights to a redundancy process and then the claims it isn't a disciplinary process but talks about representation, also kind of odd to hold a disciplinary process virtually unless that is how the business mostly operates.

Though termination is probably a high chance sounds more to me like they are either planning on making unpopular changes to the terms of the contract using the threat of termination, real or bluff, to try and make you accept them, or planning on making the role "redundant" so as to fill another gap in the company - probably an unpopular position no one wants.

It seems improbable that they can make the role 'redundant' because our senior frontend developer leaves at the end of the week which places an increased strain and remand on the development team, besides me there are 2 backend developers who have their plates full with current demand, bugs etc...
I know this to be the case rationally, but can they still find ways around technically making the role 'redundant' and then still outsourcing the work to an agency?

 

[Kenai]

What was discussed at the Tuesday 10am meeting?

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Normal redundancy process is :
1) Very short notice meeting request, usually say next day.
2) Meeting 1, full details of they are proposing it
3) Meeting 2, discussion
4) Meeting 3, we are sorry to say its now confirmed.

1-4 can be pretty short timeline, even in one go, for example a business shutting down. Think things like failed store chains.

Up until 2 years as said your pretty much sackable with no notice, and no reason. (Best advice for person doing this is to give no reason at all). (Thank the last Tory governments for increasing to two years from one year btw)

Your pay will be contract based. So if you receive say a months notice in your contract then thats what they will need to provide.
I think after one month the minimum if your contract doesn't state a notice period (by employer not employee) its four weeks, but don't take that as gospel. Its rare a contract doesn't state.

Don't get hung up on what they can and can't do in regards outsourcing. If the decision is made its made, they are very very rarely changed.

 

[mattw12345]

What was discussed at the Tuesday 10am meeting?

I'm off sick at the moment, I'm using the time atm to continue looking into legal advice and how to best approach/go into this meeting

 

[Brun]

It will be a foregone conclusion. There is nothing you can say that means they will keep you.

Don't think this is true.

If restructuring means they're wanting to get rid of a certain number of people in a specific role, everyone in that role must go through the same redundancy process. It could be a formality in that they've already determined who's being let go, but there's no way to know if that's you.

Went through it myself last year and discovered subsequently I was never at risk.

 

[Cleisthenes]

I'm off sick at the moment, I'm using the time atm to continue looking into legal advice and how to best approach/go into this meeting

I’ve no idea why you’re off sick, but that’s probably not the best start given it was a virtual meeting so you could potentially have dialled in? Depending on what you’re off for, that is.

 

[mattw12345]

I've spoken to ACAS and one thing they mentioned was that the letter doesn't say anywhere that this is about a redundancy. Been reading between the lines, that it is the case, given I've been told it's not for any allegation of breach of contract. However, what I hadn't really thought about was the ground of competence of capability.
I guess I haven't questioned this because at no point have I been warned/has any concern been communicated to me in person or in writing that I am not performing at the required level. Is it worth being prepared for this? When it comes to performance I've just always believed you would get put under some form of performance management first with specific targets/measurable goals for which they can use as evidence for the case. Perhaps this too is where the 2 years is so critical? Ie - they could just dismiss me without any real case or evidence, and I wouldn't be able to challenge it at a tribunal.

 

[NickK]

Literally a few weeks under 2 years. Which I wonder whether they're trying to rush it through potentially. If it was 2 years I know I would be able to get 1 weeks redundancy pay. I don't know if there are other things I would also benefit from.

A this looks like it's fire them rather than make their roles redundant as you're under 2 years there's no need to give a reason (they can pick whatever they like).

In the past I got some noise beforehand and fired on the spot (under 18 months), a week later they closed the office (they'd fired others too) and the week after that they sold the company to a larger company.

Just on Tuesday I got about 3-4 hours warning - HR meeting for a "private matter" and then terminated on the spot. The decision has been made already last week but basically, I'd delivered the programme, my team and everything will end up in a different company in the group. I'm 17 months in so they fired me under that contract term as a short term employee .. they give whatever reason but the HR guy was like "no evidence has been given" and he was surprised by the fact it was 'performance' when the previous performance review was good.. so basically redundancy by another means.

So - if it's the 2 year clause don't take it personally.. take a couple of days off, write the CV and move on


The 2 year clause is basically a way to make perm FTE staff as disposable as contractors without paying contract rates for them. Not have to pay redundancy nor have to go through any process.

 

[Freddie1980]

Hello all,
I sadly received an email on 1630 from my company telling me my job was at threat and that I had a meeting to discuss on Tuesday at 10am. Which literally leaves me no time to prepare or seek professional advice. Is this common to receive such short notice? I've attached the email below. I find it pretty distressing to read as I've been at the company two years and have contributed hugely to creating new applications for the business. It's so cold, there's no acknowledgement of my contributions, no sense of empathy as to how this might be making me feel and nothing about the kind of support they would offer. Is it reasonable to bring this up in the meeting and ask questions, such as, was the letter signed off by the company, or was it direct from my boss? It is out of odds with the company ethos for sure. And also asking the reasons why I have been given so little notice. The email says I can bring professional support, but there is literally no way I could get this given I got it last thing on Friday and it's a bank holiday weekend.
Any thoughts appreciated.

I am writing to advise you that you are required to attend a meeting on [date and time]. This meeting will be held virtually. You will receive a separate email with details of how to join the meeting. The meeting will be chaired by [a manager]. Another member of staff will also be present as a note-taker.

At the meeting, we will discuss upcoming changes at the company. You should be aware that the outcome of the meeting could be up to and including the termination of your employment.

You have the statutory right to be accompanied at the meeting by either a work colleague or a trade union official of your choice. Your companion will be permitted to address the meeting and confer with you during the meeting. Please let me know if you are going to be accompanied and the name of the person by [a reasonable time before the meeting].

Please confirm that you are able to attend by [confirmation deadline]. You should take all reasonable steps to attend the meeting. Failure to attend without good reason could result in the meeting being held, and a decision being taken on your ongoing employment, in your absence.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any queries about the contents of this letter.

Was that email sent on Friday?!? Seems comical that they tell you if you want to bring someone with you to the meeting then you should let THEM know within a reasonable time before the meeting yet they tell you about it 30mins before then of the day on a bank holiday weekend with the discussion at 10am on Tuesday.

I've been through the redundancy process before and my advise would be to try and keep your emotions in check as best you can, there's no point in lashing out at anyone as it will only make things worse for yourself. Initially for me it was a horrible, horrible experience losing my job and livelihood but tbh within a day or two I felt better then every, the role I was in was mega stressful and had my anxious 24/7, when I lost my job I lost all the crap that went with it which more then outweighed the feelings of loss (I didn't have any major financial worries and knew I could get work) and it was like a big weight that I had been carrying around for 3 years had instantly dropped of my shoulders. I've also experienced redundancies as 3rd party i.e. not directly involved but seen it happen to people around me and it's a real kicker and makes you sick to your stomach seeing people you like and are friends with get emotional and upset (almost as bad as it happening to yourself).

Nobody likes it, at times I feel bad for the managers who end-up being the ones playing the bad guy having to let people go even though it's not their call most of the time but it's a way the world works now unfortunately.

 

[Mysterae_]

"At the meeting, we will discuss upcoming changes at the company. You should be aware that the outcome of the meeting could be up to and including the termination of your employment."

It seems improbable that they can make the role 'redundant' because our senior frontend developer leaves at the end of the week

If they were about to offer you a promotion or another position because of other people leaving, calling a sickie wasn't the most ideal thing to do.

Can't blame you though, that notice period was unfairly short to get advice, as if they expected you to even be able to. It might have been a cookie cutter email sent to everyone.

 

[NickK]

If they were about to offer you a promotion or another position because of other people leaving, calling a sickie wasn't the most ideal thing to do.

Can't blame you though, that notice period was unfairly short to get advice, as if they expected you to even be able to. It might have been a cookie cutter email sent to everyone.

If it was positive, in terms of promotion, then there tends to be more interaction from the manager directly. You don't need "support" for good news or a promotion.

To me anything like this triggers - ok, better start looking.

If this is the first time being given the boot, assuming redundancy/2 year termination:
a) 9/10 it's not you - it's their changes that impact the role or the people are incompatible. Eitherway it's a good way forward.
b) Confirm in writing the last day, the payment that you're expect and when that will be made plus onfirm you're free to look for work. Also you should have a statement on the reason and if it's termination (usually this is a bullet of point of "performance" that has no additional evidence or explanation).
c) It will be a shock, don't let yourself get emotional, just treat it as a separation of a business agreement. Keep it civil.
d) You will feel mopey for a couple of days - time to get the friends around for a chat. Remember that you have value, even if others don't want to see that.
e) Look at it as an opportunity to improve yourself, look for new ways to improve your value.
f) Contracting can be a great way to get yourself back into the market.
g) Don't leave it too long - say a couple days, the more this occurs the less "shock" you'll be in, before you start looking at writing your CV and start building out your LinkedIn profile etc.

h) Start building out a hit list of applications - remember you should be tailoring applications more than ever unfortunately.

 

[Mysterae_]

If it was positive, in terms of promotion, then there tends to be more interaction from the manager directly. You don't need "support" for good news or a promotion.

Fair point! I was going along the lines of them sending the same email out to everyone in the cold business way.

 

[Shoza]

I really wouldn’t have called in sick for that sort of meeting unless I was on deaths door..