Possibly getting back into biking - advanced riding courses?

[Hades]

As some may recall I was knocked off my bike a year and a half ago, sustaining some serious injuries. I'm not 100% healed yet and am still going through the injury claim (it was entirely the drivers fault and they have admitted liability). So I won't mention too much about the accident until the claim is over. I'm not yet sure how I will feel getting on a bike again and my wife is very much against it. That's something I will have to work through with her and certainly take her feelings into account. I do understand how it would worry her.

But recently I've started to really miss riding again and wanted to start looking into ways to make it safer if I did return to it at some point in the future. With both cars and bikes I've always had the attitude that even if something is 100% the other drivers fault then there are usually ways to reduce the risk to yourself.

So I want to look into more advanced riding courses. I would welcome anyone's experience of these, whether they are worth it and what type of course to look out for, etc. If anyone has any recommendations in the Surrey area then that would also be appreciated.

Thank you.


** I am so, so glad I was wearing full gear at the time and anyone who rides without it is a muppet - but it's obviously their choice. Looking at the damage on my helmet makes me very happy I paid the extra for a good brand and wasn't wearing an open face helmet.

 

[CrazyGreggy]

You’re not wrong about open face or, god forbid, brain buckets. Not familiar with the area but as a fully paid-up member of the “not letting the b***ard take my hobby away” club, best of luck getting back in the saddle

 

[ttaskmaster]

Some places are good.
Our local IAM group has a high rate of accidents, though, either through thinking they're better than they are or through thinking doing an IAM course makes them invincible.
Other groups have a better track record.

Best advice I can give is to read, understand and work through Roadcraft, the Police Rider's handbook, and then book an observed ride with your local bike cops.

 

[IC3]

Motogymkhana, I myself am thinking about it.

 

[Diddums]

I'd definitely do it if it will boost your confidence and roadcraft. You'll never prevent inattentive drivers being inattentive but anything you can do to help will matter. I'd check out BMW's courses too, they do a few and some offroad ones too which not only look a hoot, but will take your bike control to another level.

Motor gymkhana is for 20 year olds in "WHO5 DAT" vests who do a wheelie whilst their mates go "well wikkid m8". Would've been fun when I was that age but I've grown up a lot since then.

 

[iamtheoneneo]

Surrey Police - BikeSafe

Surrey BikeSafe - book a BikeSafe workshop with Surrey Police with an observed ride with a graded police motorcyclist + safety/skills

bikesafe.co.uk

probably the best you can do id expect.
of course some oldies will bemoan that they take corners 'incorrectly' because of the focus on cornering in zones 1 and 3, but aside from that they are supposed to be very helpful even for experienced riders.

 

[djjuk]

I did both Bikesafe and IAM shortly after passing my test a few years ago - took value from both, and I think with the IAM, a lot depends on the observer you are paired with; I got lucky with mine and found it beneficial. I didn't stay as a member after passing as I am not into the whole advanced rider 'scene', but nonetheless, I found it worth the time, and it was nice to get the 'pass'. Both are based on the Police Roadcraft systems https://www.roadcraft.co.uk/motorcycle-roadcraft/ which is worth a read to get the idea.

 

[BUDFORCE]

You know what, at risk of sounding like a ****, I am just wondering if you are in a proper mental state to start riding, if you feel you need to take a course "make it safer" it sounds like you are understandably quite nervous.

I used to watch cyclecruza YouTube channel and whilst the content is pretty horrific one video he was going about "not riding scared" and basically saying if you are nervous and feel like you gonna have a crash, you might end up having one because you are in that mindset, and I must admit it's something that got me thinking anyway.

Obviously goes without saying riding the opposite mindset, eg not a care in the world isn't good, but I always think you have to be confident but with respect, if that makes sense.

I dunno though maybe the course will give you that, I suppose it can't hurt to take it, see how you feel after, take it a step at a time kinda thing.

 

[Hades]

Thanks all.

 

[PieEater]

BUDFORCE Makes some good points a lot of accidents happen when the rider gets fixated on an object or vehicle to that they could collide with and without realising are then riding directly towards the object as your natural inclination is to ride to the point you are focusing on. So ironically if you're main focus is avoiding accidents then you could end up causing one. That said being cautious is a good thing due to the number of idiots on the road but you do need to remain relaxed and focused at the same time. If you're tense you may end up locking your arms which has a really bad impact on manoeuvrability should you need to change direction quickly.

Sounds like biking is in your blood and no doubt you'll get back on a bike when you're ready. It may be that attending a safety course might make the Mrs a bit less anxious about you riding again and also should help get your confidence back, so I'd definitely consider it as and when you're ready.

 

[IC3]

I'd definitely do it if it will boost your confidence and roadcraft. You'll never prevent inattentive drivers being inattentive but anything you can do to help will matter. I'd check out BMW's courses too, they do a few and some offroad ones too which not only look a hoot, but will take your bike control to another level.

Motor gymkhana is for 20 year olds in "WHO5 DAT" vests who do a wheelie whilst their mates go "well wikkid m8". Would've been fun when I was that age but I've grown up a lot since then.

I don't think you quite understand what motogymkhana is... here's few examples

It requires a lot of skill and hours of training, I thought that being able to wheelie, do a stoppie, balancing the bike when fully stopped, slipping the clutch with a lower gear and positioning the bike into a corner in a slide made me a good rider... Oh boy how I was wrong, the bike control you need to manevour the bike like that is next level of riding ability.

 

[Scort]

Not sure how much use those skills are on the road though - sure maybe a rider will understand what their bike is capable of, but I don't think anyone will take a corner laying the bike down like that. It seems akin to supermoto riders backing it in and sliding around - techniques that aren't really useful on the road.

 

[IC3]

Not sure how much use those skills are on the road though - sure maybe a rider will understand what their bike is capable of, but I don't think anyone will take a corner laying the bike down like that. It seems akin to supermoto riders backing it in and sliding around - techniques that aren't really useful on the road.

That's the point knowing what your bike is capable of and having the skill to react when something does surprise you on the road e.g. gravel. It's the same with cars, loads of people still think that drifting skills are pointless, but when that rear end goes or you hit standing water and the car becomes unstable your memory muscle will catch it in time, that split of a second is sometimes crucial to prevent you from crashing...

I'm surprised so many of you think that theory is enough to be "safer", improving your riding skills should be as important.

 

[ttaskmaster]

I don't think anyone will take a corner laying the bike down like that.

There's a particular mini roundabout locally where I would regularly brush my Cruiser pegs on the ground at about 10mph. It began as an accident, but since it was a regular route for me it developed into a sort of party trick. Came in handy once in London, going round a long slow 2-lane bend and the lorry on the inside started drifting wider and wider. It kept me from panicking and let me manoeuvre out of the way.

It's the same with cars, loads of people still think that drifting skills are pointless, but when that rear end goes or you hit standing water and the car becomes unstable your memory muscle will catch it in time, that split of a second is sometimes crucial to prevent you from crashing...

In countries that have such frequent conditions, their training specifically includes things like gravel skids and drifting on ice and snow.
We don't have any reliably available places to practice such stuff, and skid pans seem reserved for advanced classes.

 

[Scuzi]

I don’t have much time at the minute so I’m jotting down a quick reply now so I don’t miss this thread. I’ll post a fuller reply later as there is some good and not so good advice in this thread.

In short, your approach to this problem is admirable and despite the doubt from an earlier poster about your frame of mind, I think you are in a great frame of mind. Training is the only way to make riding markedly safer. Anything else is marginal gains, placebo, or downright arrogance - something which afflicts many who straddle a motorbike.

Track or other off-road motorcycle handling courses have their place but you’ve rightly identified that they aren’t the solution. Making road riding safer requires training on the road. It requires a different approach to information processing and hazard management that cannot be trained in any other environment. The IAM and RoSPA advanced riding courses are the best bang for buck courses you can do and they will absolutely make you a safer and more confident rider. The justified confidence increase (not misplaced like many who don’t train extensively) will make riding much more enjoyable too. They teach Roadcraft which is a system created and used by the Police. Some groups have adapted this well to civilian riding, although there are still a handful with a high contingent of ex-coppers who allow it to go to their heads. Good groups are brilliant and are the majority.

There are alternative courses offered by Rapid training and some others, but these come at significant cost, and IMO I had better results from other sources.

I’ve completed IAM Advanced, Masters Distinction, RoSPA Gold and am a current Observer (Instructor) with the IAM. I don’t want to come across as arrogant, but I’ve helped train a lot of motorcyclists who came from being downright dangerous and under confident, into very competent and safe riders. Let me know if you have any specific questions and I’ll be happy to answer. Also happy to discuss in more detail via PM if you wish.

 

[Scort]

That's the point knowing what your bike is capable of and having the skill to react when something does surprise you on the road e.g. gravel. It's the same with cars, loads of people still think that drifting skills are pointless, but when that rear end goes or you hit standing water and the car becomes unstable your memory muscle will catch it in time, that split of a second is sometimes crucial to prevent you from crashing...

I'm surprised so many of you think that theory is enough to be "safer", improving your riding skills should be as important.

But as I say - when would you need to chuck a bike around like that on the road? Only place I can think of is the drive thru at Maccy Ds

If your bike is at these angles on the road, then it's probably too late to save - it's also likely been caused by something on the road, maybe diesel or summertime ice.... both of which I'm sure this 'training' can't prepare you for, as there's a chance the bike has already gone after hitting them.

Gymkhana is an extreme example of learning what your bike is capable of, much in the same way as drifting is, in learning how your RWD car handles imo. Isn't it common in Sweden for drivers to have mandatory training on dealing with skids - and I'm pretty sure it's not a drifting course.

Theory has its place, but putting things into practice is where you learn - I just don't buy that laying your bike down around a cone course, will translate into much usable skills on the road. Whatever it is that the Police take, is probably the sort of course road riders would get the most benefit from imo

 

[Hades]

I don’t have much time at the minute so I’m jotting down a quick reply now so I don’t miss this thread. I’ll post a fuller reply later as there is some good and not so good advice in this thread.

In short, your approach to this problem is admirable and despite the doubt from an earlier poster about your frame of mind, I think you are in a great frame of mind. Training is the only way to make riding markedly safer. Anything else is marginal gains, placebo, or downright arrogance - something which afflicts many who straddle a motorbike.

Track or other off-road motorcycle handling courses have their place but you’ve rightly identified that they aren’t the solution. Making road riding safer requires training on the road. It requires a different approach to information processing and hazard management that cannot be trained in any other environment. The IAM and RoSPA advanced riding courses are the best bang for buck courses you can do and they will absolutely make you a safer and more confident rider. The justified confidence increase (not misplaced like many who don’t train extensively) will make riding much more enjoyable too. They teach Roadcraft which is a system created and used by the Police. Some groups have adapted this well to civilian riding, although there are still a handful with a high contingent of ex-coppers who allow it to go to their heads. Good groups are brilliant and are the majority.

There are alternative courses offered by Rapid training and some others, but these come at significant cost, and IMO I had better results from other sources.

I’ve completed IAM Advanced, Masters Distinction, RoSPA Gold and am a current Observer (Instructor) with the IAM. I don’t want to come across as arrogant, but I’ve helped train a lot of motorcyclists who came from being downright dangerous and under confident, into very competent and safe riders. Let me know if you have any specific questions and I’ll be happy to answer. Also happy to discuss in more detail via PM if you wish.

Thank you.

 

[Tefal]

As some may recall I was knocked off my bike a year and a half ago, sustaining some serious injuries. I'm not 100% healed yet and am still going through the injury claim (it was entirely the drivers fault and they have admitted liability). So I won't mention too much about the accident until the claim is over. I'm not yet sure how I will feel getting on a bike again and my wife is very much against it. That's something I will have to work through with her and certainly take her feelings into account. I do understand how it would worry her.

But recently I've started to really miss riding again and wanted to start looking into ways to make it safer if I did return to it at some point in the future. With both cars and bikes I've always had the attitude that even if something is 100% the other drivers fault then there are usually ways to reduce the risk to yourself.

So I want to look into more advanced riding courses. I would welcome anyone's experience of these, whether they are worth it and what type of course to look out for, etc. If anyone has any recommendations in the Surrey area then that would also be appreciated.

Thank you.


** I am so, so glad I was wearing full gear at the time and anyone who rides without it is a muppet - but it's obviously their choice. Looking at the damage on my helmet makes me very happy I paid the extra for a good brand and wasn't wearing an open face helmet.

I recommend doing it though a riding school, I did some advanced lessons while doing my das a deacade+ ago and they were super helpful.


I've ridden with IAM "tutors" (they aren't) and holy **** the incompetence was bad, it seems more like a boys club. One of the idiots I went with had his rear brake seize and burn because he didnt realise he'd ****** up his linkage mod and it was on permanently till the caliper burned the pad to the disk.

 

[Hades]

Thanks.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

All I'll add after knowing possibly 100s of Bikers being injured (and some dead) and also watching loads of Traffic Cop type documentaries, your best chance is to drive at the speed limit, don't overtake where you shouldn't and you'll stand a much better chance of not being knocked off by some idiot motorist pulling out on you or just killing yourself by doing something stupid.
My mates son is in ICU now because he thought it was a good idea to overtake a van by a junction.