Maybe because for large parts of his Southampton premier league career he struggled to score more then 10 goals? He scored 40 goals in 7 seasons...you're picking him over Gerrard?
That's a wild shout.
Premier League Hall of Fame
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Maybe because for large parts of his Southampton premier league career he struggled to score more then 10 goals? He scored 40 goals in 7 seasons...you're picking him over Gerrard?
That's a wild shout.
Whole list seems weird. Why can you vote repeatedly? Why's it restricted to 8 rather than a best 11? Why isn't it done over a set period of time like 92-01, 02-11, 12-21 rather than from inception to now? Where's Kompany and Gary Neville? Why's Les Ferdinand on the list?
I'll go with Schmeichel, Terry, Vieira, Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes. Would have Giggs over Schmeichel if he was on the list.
you go with Terry and he'll go with your wife...................
gerrard 504 games 120 goals 92 assists, best season of 16 goals
le tissier 270games 100 goals 64 assists, best season of 25 goals
that's good enough for me, 234 more games and only 20 more goals ?
Its almost like ones a striker and one very much isnt. Gerrard was in the team of the year 8 times lmao.
Le Tissier has a few other things going for him as far as 'hall of fame' goes - first midfielder to reach 100 premier league goals, one of the best premier league penalty conversion rates, the fact he pretty much carried Southampton as a premier league team for half a decade.
Bit disingenuous to point at his final 7 seasons and criticise the goal return when the last 3 of those seasons he only played a total of 30 games at an average of 30 odd minutes per game. The other 4 of those 7 seasons he was still averaging nearly 10 goals per season at a rate of roughly a goal every 3 games.
Also seems strange to then hold up Gerrard as the alternative midfielder following a criticism of struggling to score more than 10 goals a season, who only broke the 10 goal mark 4 times in his entire 17 season premier league career.
Bit disingenuous to point at his final 7 seasons and criticise the goal return when the last 3 of those seasons he only played a total of 30 games at an average of 30 odd minutes per game. The other 4 of those 7 seasons he was still averaging nearly 10 goals per season at a rate of roughly a goal every 3 games.
Also seems strange to then hold up Gerrard as the alternative midfielder following a criticism of struggling to score more than 10 goals a season, who only broke the 10 goal mark 4 times in his entire 17 season premier league career.
Le Tissier could well be described as an attacking midfielder, whereas Gerrard wasn't specifically an 'attacking' midfielder, but he wasn't a striker.
you said it was a wild shout but those details are part of the reason i'd go with le tissier, and it's not like gerrard was any sort of defensive midfielder
but lets face it, part of the wonder of football you'll never get everyone to agree
He no doubt did play further forward but he was very much a midfielder, judging him as if he was some sort of out and out striker who should have been returning 20 goals a season year in year out is unfair
I reckon Gerrard played just as many if not more games in deeper/defensive midfield roles than he played in attacking midfield roles. In fact Gerrard probably only played 2 full seasons as an out and out attacking midfielder (07/08 & 08/09) in which he scored 20+ goals in both seasons. There would have been specific games between 2005 & 2010 where he played behind a striker on top of those two seasons but mostly he played as a regular centre mid. Pre and post Benitez he played almost all of his footbal in more defensive/deeper midfield roles.
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In the same way Shearer gets praise for staying at Newcastle. Le Tissier doesn't get the same as he was arguably a fantastic talent. He must have one of the best highlights reel of any attacker to play in the premier league.
I think a lot of players who didn't get a lot of England Caps was because we didn't qualify for the 1994 world cup. A lot of players around that time missed out on a lot because of that. Ian Wright and Andy Cole you could add to that.
The equivalent in todays game is say Bruno Fernandes that plays for Burnley but kept his form for nigh on a decade. Le Tissier would have been so much more if he went to a big club but respect him for being a one club man as well.
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How many games did they miss out on? 5-6, including a couple of warm-up games pre touranment. Hardly a big deal.
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Yes but then it might have cemented their place for the 1996 tournament. Then again we had plenty of attacking personnel to choose from back then. Even in 1996 I would have rather had Andy Cole or Ian Wright playing alongside shearer.
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I wonder how much recency bias will play a part on this voting, that's what makes me think it would have been better to do it by decade maybe. I personally think Irwin should have been nominated, criminally underrated.
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Lol. Turin 1999. He played against Zidane, Davids, Conte, Deschamps and was motm.
MLT was absolute mint, most raw talent of any English player in my generation. Nice compilation here if you can forgive the video quality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAjgL0YIXUg
World beaters like Xavi were in awe of his ability, I guess the fact he stayed at Southampton means he'll never really get the accolades he could've done elsewhere.
The irony is you look at some of the most famous goals of other legends like Gazza (vs Scotland) and Cantona (vs Sunderland) and MLT basically has his own version of those goals, just much better, beating more players etc.
The fact Carlton Palmer and Geoff Thomas both got more caps than him is an absolute disgrace (I'm aware they played slightly deeper so not a like-for-like comparison, just an illustration).
That said, 'raw talent' isn't the sole factor in play here, so you can definitely make a case for some of the more successful players who also had good talent and huge peer admiration (e.g. Scholes) being ahead of him.
If I had to pick six from that list right now, I think I'd go:
Bergkamp
Schmeichel
Scholes
Keane
Vieira
Le Tissier
Ask me another day and e.g. Ashley Cole, Terry, Gerrard, Lampard might get in.
Adams was brilliant in the 90s but a fair bit of his career predates the Premier League so doesn't really tick the longevity box for me.
Bit surprised to see Seaman omitted from the shortlist? Or is it a case of they fancy a goalie in the HOF, but don't want to split the votes.... get Schmeichel voted in then add Seaman to a later vote, I bet.
Seems a bit dodgy if it's just a case of spamming votes online though, I assume that means players from clubs with the biggest fan bases will get in, so basically MLT and Les Ferdinand, no chance (everyone else played for the 'big four'), and plenty of MU getting in.
World beaters like Xavi were in awe of his ability, I guess the fact he stayed at Southampton means he'll never really get the accolades he could've done elsewhere.
The irony is you look at some of the most famous goals of other legends like Gazza (vs Scotland) and Cantona (vs Sunderland) and MLT basically has his own version of those goals, just much better, beating more players etc.
The fact Carlton Palmer and Geoff Thomas both got more caps than him is an absolute disgrace (I'm aware they played slightly deeper so not a like-for-like comparison, just an illustration).
That said, 'raw talent' isn't the sole factor in play here, so you can definitely make a case for some of the more successful players who also had good talent and huge peer admiration (e.g. Scholes) being ahead of him.
If I had to pick six from that list right now, I think I'd go:
Bergkamp
Schmeichel
Scholes
Keane
Vieira
Le Tissier
Ask me another day and e.g. Ashley Cole, Terry, Gerrard, Lampard might get in.
Adams was brilliant in the 90s but a fair bit of his career predates the Premier League so doesn't really tick the longevity box for me.
Bit surprised to see Seaman omitted from the shortlist? Or is it a case of they fancy a goalie in the HOF, but don't want to split the votes.... get Schmeichel voted in then add Seaman to a later vote, I bet.
Seems a bit dodgy if it's just a case of spamming votes online though, I assume that means players from clubs with the biggest fan bases will get in, so basically MLT and Les Ferdinand, no chance (everyone else played for the 'big four'), and plenty of MU getting in.
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There's a slight factor there but if that was the main factor how would you explain the number of caps some other dross got, as I mentioned above both Palmer and G.Thomas got more caps than MLT. Now I accept that with MLT it would be difficult to have him and Gazza in the same team but WC'98 is a good one to consider, Gazza left at home so why not take MLT in a squad of 22 ? Especially when he got a hat trick for England B in April of that year, seriously what was the point of that game, opportunity for fringe players to get on the plane surely? Apparently not. Instead we took the likes of Merson (nothing against him, he was my favourite player in the early 90s) and Lee, who were both in their 30s.
As Baz mentioned with the strikers there was a lot of competition, considering how good they were in the early/mid-90s Wright/Cole (and Fowler) didn't get that many caps, but it's understandable because nobody is better than prime Shearer so there's essentially only 1 spot up for grabs alongside him. And for whatever reason Sheringham seemed to be a useful foil for him.
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