Poll: Premier League Shake-Up?

PL/EFL changes of structure

  • 18 Team PL, all the power to the top 6 and save the EFL

    Votes: 1 1.4%
  • 18 Team PL, little or no more power to the top 6 and save the EFL

    Votes: 56 78.9%
  • 20 Team PL and the EFL dies.

    Votes: 14 19.7%

  • Total voters
    71
I believe the current TV monies allocation is fair and encourages competition. I'm not opposed that the EFL gets a bit more however, 5 mil from each PL team would not be noticed by those clubs and to be honest is probably needed. So 100 mil to the EFL rather than 250.

I think the big problem everyone has with this deal is that it is creating a bias for certain clubs based on a specific time period. As I said Man City, Spurs, Chelsea, have only recently become "big clubs", anything that cements their position is anti-competitive.
 
Any clubs other than the 'big 6' would be absolutely insane to support this in it's current format.
...and why it won't pass. The only way this could pass would be if there were written guarantees on things like TV money etc but even then it's unlikely.
Let's be 100% fair here - if it's not for "the other clubs making money off the backs of the great Liverpool and Man United" there would be no league and no where near the amount of revenue available to these clubs.

My point for the the collective voice is that if a decicion that effects the whole league should be decided by the whole league. So yes, if clubs want to decide their own TV rights and collectively come to an agreement - then that's fair (even if it does mess things up further IMO). Turning that on it's head - there's nothing to stop the big 6 (who happen to have the largest fan bases) deciding in two years time or whatever arbatory limit they'll put when negotiating with the PL and EFL then going "time for our own deals boys!" and voting it through.

Honestly a lot of this could be fixed by putting spending / wage caps on the playing squads. It would cause the league to be more competative as the big talent would have to be spread around (because you can't have all the best players undera cap - unless the players wanted less pay to play), players have more reasonable wages etc etc
If the current plans were just approved with no changes, yes there's nothing stopping them doing that but it won't happen. The other clubs won't vote for it.

As for 'without the other clubs there would be no league'. Not that I'm supportive of it but who is to say who these other clubs could be? I'm just reading an Athletic article and one of the points raised is if the other 14 clubs don't give the top clubs what they want, why don't these top clubs breakaway and rejoin with the EFL? All the TV money will just move with them. Again, I'm not suggesting this idea but you have to accept the reality that a handful of clubs are what has driven the PL's success, the rest are just there to make up the numbers.

I think the big problem everyone has with this deal is that it is creating a bias for certain clubs based on a specific time period. As I said Man City, Spurs, Chelsea, have only recently become "big clubs", anything that cements their position is anti-competitive.
This is true but it's exactly the same as when the PL was formed. Clubs that just so happened to be at the top then benefitted.
 
Ben Rumsby has confirmed that under these proposals the FA would retain their "golden share" which would enable them to veto anything they didn't like, which would stop the top sides going rogue.
And what’s to stop the “ so called big6” if all this goes though going back the the FA a few years down the line and saying they want full control with no FA “golden share” or they are walking away from the league to form a European super league. If history and life teaches us one thing, it’s the rich and powerful always want more riches and power
 
And what’s to stop the “ so called big6” if all this goes though going back the the FA a few years down the line and saying they want full control with no FA “golden share” or they are walking away from the league to form a European super league. If history and life teaches us one thing it’s the rich and powerful always want more riches and power
You're always confusing the life out of me woppy. What's to stop them? The FA. That's the entire point of the FA having their golden share. The FA can veto anything the PL decides. They can do this now and reportedly, they'll keep it under the current proposals.

The current proposals, in their existing form, will not pass though and we're wasting time discussing them. The top 6 are looking for a watered down compromise and I suspect the main aim is simply cutting the league down to 18 teams. So the question we should be discussing is, is cutting the PL to 18 teams a fair trade off for pumping an extra hundreds of millions per year into the EFL?
 
You're always confusing the life out of me woppy. What's to stop them? The FA. That's the entire point of the FA having their golden share. The FA can veto anything the PL decides. They can do this now and reportedly, they'll keep it under the current proposals.

The current proposals, in their existing form, will not pass though and we're wasting time discussing them. The top 6 are looking for a watered down compromise and I suspect the main aim is simply cutting the league down to 18 teams. So the question we should be discussing is, is cutting the PL to 18 teams a fair trade off for pumping an extra hundreds of millions per year into the EFL?
Personally yes it is a fair trade(and yes I would still feel that way if Newcastle were in 17th place the year it came into force) but you and me both know the well being of the EFL and its clubs is the last thing on the “big6’s” mind, this is an opportunistic power grab nothing more nothing less, and your deluded and blinkered if you think otherwise.
 
...and why it won't pass. The only way this could pass would be if there were written guarantees on things like TV money etc but even then it's unlikely.

If the current plans were just approved with no changes, yes there's nothing stopping them doing that but it won't happen. The other clubs won't vote for it.

As for 'without the other clubs there would be no league'. Not that I'm supportive of it but who is to say who these other clubs could be? I'm just reading an Athletic article and one of the points raised is if the other 14 clubs don't give the top clubs what they want, why don't these top clubs breakaway and rejoin with the EFL? All the TV money will just move with them. Again, I'm not suggesting this idea but you have to accept the reality that a handful of clubs are what has driven the PL's success, the rest are just there to make up the numbers.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this point - I personally love the variety the league contains and that no game is an easy win and it's terribly elitist to think that only a handful of clubs are more deserving than others.

that being said I'm sure we'd both have different opinions on this if our positions were swapped.
 
I find it funny that Newcastle and it’s fans arguably moreso then any other club, have the “sense of entitlement” accusation levelled at them by media and other clubs fans and it now comes out that the “big6 have an even bigger sense of entitlement, so much so they try to rewrite the PL so they are in charge
 
I find it funny that Newcastle and it’s fans arguably moreso then any other club, have the “sense of entitlement” accusation levelled at them by media and other clubs fans and it now comes out that the “big6 have an even bigger sense of entitlement, so much so they try to rewrite the PL so they are in charge

Mate, we're only allowed to be big in the 90's and now we're not allowed to be revelevent. Get back in you box with the rest of us Northern folk! :p
 
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this point - I personally love the variety the league contains and that no game is an easy win and it's terribly elitist to think that only a handful of clubs are more deserving than others.

that being said I'm sure we'd both have different opinions on this if our positions were swapped.
I'm not sure what we're agreeing to disagree on? I'm not sure I've expressed my personal preference about any shake up of the League in this thread, I've simply commented on very specific points that people have made which have not been accurate or simply contradictory. Comments about competitive advantage and this crazy point about them blocking takeovers are misguided or simply nonsense. Without massive outside investment the top 4-6 is all but a closed shop already - they've even made outside investment as hard as possible with FFP (something I disagree with btw). This reform isn't going to make much if any difference to the competitiveness of the League. And the thing about blocking takeovers is pure nonsense.

You then made a comment about equal rights etc. You can't have your cake and eat it. You can't say to the big boys, we want to have equal say but also we want you to give us a chunk of your money too

As in my reply to woppy below, if you want a truly fair League then you've got to scrap relegation. Until then you will not convince a privately owned club to fully share it's revenue with everybody else. You can't expect them to give all that away and still face great risks.

Personally yes it is a fair trade(and yes I would still feel that way if Newcastle were in 17th place the year it came into force) but you and me both know the well being of the EFL and its clubs is the last thing on the “big6’s” mind, this is an opportunistic power grab nothing more nothing less, and your deluded and blinkered if you think otherwise.

Yes, I know they don't care about the EFL just like the EFL don't care about them. If this ends with an 18 team PL, funding for the EFL and no massively unfair changes to the way voting and decision making is made in the PL then we will have ended up with a very good deal imo. I don't care what the motives are, the outcome is more important.
And there's the key point in the highlighted quote from Henry - relegation. I've previously commented that the ideal solution would be a genuine revenue sharing model however that only works if the League becomes a closed shop with no relegation and promotion.
 
Another great write up by Henry winter
Operation Avarice would surely leave all but ‘big six’ on life support

Project Big Picture, or Operation Avarice as it should be called, is so wretchedly, nakedly cynical, so obviously greed dressed up as munificence, that it deserves the widespread contempt it has immediately garnered. Everybody can see through what the “big six” are up to, wanting to run English football, ruining the dreams of those who aspire to the heights, diminishing the power of the FA further, and setting the scene for the European Super League. It is “the theft of hope”, as one Newcastle United fan eloquently but mournfully lamented. It is a short-term bandage that leaves a long-term wound that will never heal.

The need for a proper debate on the structure and finances of football is beyond question, and was urgent even before the poisonous wind of the pandemic blew through the English game. But discussions should always take place as a football family, as a collective, not a self-interested cabal led by Liverpool and Manchester United dictating terms in patronising fashion to the rest of the pyramid, including their supposedly less-celebrated colleagues in the Premier League. This closes down the dream factory of English football.

So shortly after FSG’s Liverpool had seven put past them by Aston Villa makes it a strange time to launch Mission Power Grab. At a time when the players of Liverpool, such as Trent Alexander-Arnold, Andrew Robertson and Jordan Henderson, and Manchester United, like Marcus Rashford, are doing so much for the community, the threat by their owners to control English football seems even more egregious.


Elements of the proposal are good — helping out the EFL with £250 million and FA with £100 million, capping away tickets at £20, addressing the madness of parachute payments and encouraging sustainability is to be welcomed throughout the EFL — but close inspection of the proposal reveals immediate and manifold concerns.

It seems strange the elite have recently been pleading poverty, some flirting with furloughing staff, and yet have now found all this ready cash, ready for transferring down-table. What the “big six” offer the EFL is effectively what they gave to agents last year. And it’s not even only their money, and depending on their broadcast negotiating power they will effectively be saving £200 million of the £250 million long-term by losing two clubs.

It needs saying again that Richard Scudamore’s greatest gift, beyond the former Premier League executive chairman’s mastery of broadcast negotiations, was to keep all 20 clubs pointed in the same direction. Not now. This plan points the Premier League towards civil war.

A proper plan would be to acknowledge how much of their talent is honed in the EFL, and how much it is in their self-interest to help the pyramid. There is enough broadcast money at the top level to assist the weaker parts of English football, and they are stronger together, a 92, unique throughout the world.

If the elite clubs are concerned about their own profits, maybe they could temper the wages they lavish on stars, the substantial transfer fees they pay, the riches they give to agents. They could work more subtly with the government, persuade the exchequer to contribute to the lower leagues.

It is particularly “disappointing”, to borrow the word of an outraged Premier League, that the EFL’s chairman, Rick Parry, has fallen into cahoots with the Glazers, FSG and those whose creed is greed. Parry, formerly chief executive of Liverpool, suddenly appears a Trojan Horse. Some of his 72 clubs will doubtless support the proposals, such is their despair which the “big six” are preying on. “Through this proposed restructuring we aim to strengthen those who need it most at a time when they need it most,” Parry says. “This is a blueprint for the future of English football and for everyone who cherishes it.”

Nonsense. This leaves English football being run from Boston and the Everglades. It would leave the rich getting richer, leaving the Premier League under a rule of six, in control of broadcast deals, inevitably maximising their return, running the league, overruling the FA, even deciding who should come into other clubs. It adds some credence to all those stories that certain clubs intervened to stop the Saudi takeover of Newcastle, not because they objected to human rights abuses but because they feared a challenge to their attempted hegemony.

These plans limit the likes of pesky upstarts who dare take on the established order, a Leicester City pushing for the title, an Aston Villa rebuilding. It restricts the ambitions of those in mid-table, and tells the promoted to know their place. They are an affront to sporting integrity.

Reducing the number of clubs in the Premier League to 18 frees up more dates for the European Super League which is, partly, what this is all about, and everyone understands the damage that would do to English football. Those few supporting Parry do not see the real big picture.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...ave-all-but-big-six-on-life-support-dct38dtcb
 
You should really read articles by people that specialise in football finance and legal matters, not football romantics like Henry Winter who doesn't understand the complexities of what's being proposed. But you'd rather stick your head in the sand and believe that there was no valid reasons for Newcastle's Saudi takeover being challenged.
 
I'd support the clubs playing in Europe dropping out of the League Cup but the power grab is just wrong and I support a big 6 club. The Prem should help out the EFL in these difficult times and going forward but thats it from me. Stop just looking out for the biggest clubs, the league is made up of 20 or maybe 18 clubs and they all deserve the same voting power.
 
I'd support the clubs playing in Europe dropping out of the League Cup but the power grab is just wrong and I support a big 6 club. The Prem should help out the EFL in these difficult times and going forward but thats it from me. Stop just looking out for the biggest clubs, the league is made up of 20 or maybe 18 clubs and they all deserve the same voting power.
Steve Parish, owner of Crystal Palace gave his views on helping out the EFL the other week. He compared it to asking a supermarket to bail out a corner shop. There's this weird fascination about pointing the blame for the EFL's struggles at the top sides but lets be crystal clear, none of the PL clubs want to help them. It's 6 months from when the EFL pleaded for a bail out neither the government or the PL have come up with anything. This is the one proposal on the table to save the EFL.
 
You should really read articles by people that specialise in football finance and legal matters, not football romantics like Henry Winter who doesn't understand the complexities of what's being proposed. But you'd rather stick your head in the sand and believe that there was no valid reasons for Newcastle's Saudi takeover being challenged.
Wow you really are wasted here on OC forums, you really should be a top football journalist, with your obvious infinite knowledge and understanding on the complexities of football and football finances, I mean you clearly know far more than Henry winter even though he’s one of the mostly trusted writers in the country working for one of the biggest papers, In fact I expect to see you taking his place and writing for the times in short order ehh? Or could it just be you don’t agree with what’s written because it doesn’t match what your spouting currently and paints your club in a bad light?

I have just tweeted Henry winter that big BaZ87 over on Overclockers forums says “ your wrong and don’t have a clue about football finances” so all is right with the football world now
 
Steve Parish, owner of Crystal Palace gave his views on helping out the EFL the other week. He compared it to asking a supermarket to bail out a corner shop. There's this weird fascination about pointing the blame for the EFL's struggles at the top sides but lets be crystal clear, none of the PL clubs want to help them. It's 6 months from when the EFL pleaded for a bail out neither the government or the PL have come up with anything. This is the one proposal on the table to save the EFL.

Its just bribery. I hope they can't find the votes in the PL to carry this forward. If the EFL collapses it will have huge knock on effects for football and the PL. They are aware of that and will have to do something at some point.
 
I'm not sure what we're agreeing to disagree on? I'm not sure I've expressed my personal preference about any shake up of the League in this thread, I've simply commented on very specific points that people have made which have not been accurate or simply contradictory. Comments about competitive advantage and this crazy point about them blocking takeovers are misguided or simply nonsense. Without massive outside investment the top 4-6 is all but a closed shop already - they've even made outside investment as hard as possible with FFP (something I disagree with btw). This reform isn't going to make much if any difference to the competitiveness of the League. And the thing about blocking takeovers is pure nonsense.

Apologies, my response was worded badly. The agree to disagree bit was only towards your assertion that the top 6 are the only clubs that make the league what it is - where I think it's the breadth of teams, each with their own way of playing that make it as entertaining as it is.

I will admit I am a little "tinfoil hat" at the moment, as I still have a sour taste in my mouth from the whole NUFC takeover debarcle (and I'm annoyed that it is still dragging out).

In regards to the "cake and eat it" - I'm happy for all teams to pay an equal share for an equal say in something (obviously prize money and brand growth are given more to the top!). Then whatever can collectively be decided is a fair outcome, regardless of who it effects and how. Giving that saying power to under a third of the current teams doesn't sit well with me.

I'm happy for an 18 team league if it means more clubs can compete throughout the rest of the structure - again as a recent (and now seemingly regular) regigation candiate team supporter.
 
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