Programming should be part of the school syllabus

AberystwythLAD said:
Programming is software engineering which is computing.

IT is top level stuff. Only true computer scientists delve into the deep stuff. Programming, command line, Assembler, OS's, algorithms, etc. IT is basic in comparison and thats why computer science/software engineering grads are much more respected than IT grads unless the IT grad done their degree at a university where the IT degrees have a common first year to computer science degree students.

Trust me, I'm an engineer. ;)
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How arrogant.

Trust me I have a masters in computer science... I'm performing research into the effects of higher dimensional distances on machine learning algorithms. Some obvious algorithms are effected is K-nearest-neighbor.

Software Development departments often come under I.T in the companies structure. That not its exact definition, but that it how must corporates are organised. If your doing a cs degree, you will most likely be classed as an I.T graduate.

If you ever want to be a manager unless you're in a software company it's best to become an I.T guy rather than a software guy, unfortunately. CIO's tend to come from the groups deploying servers and software etc rather than developing software. Software guys tend to become specialists.
 
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I think a GCSE that focuses on programming is a good idea - nobody is forced to do it, but kids who already have an interest can take the subject. Why teach kids how to use Microsoft Office and how to send emails when they already know how? An actual computer science GCSE could be a good alternative.
 
I wish I could have learnt both programming and proper music theory + sight reading in school :(

I had no chance of learning it myself, my family were technophobes.

IT / ICT on the other hand are 100% useless. I was reading Tomshardware and PC mags since my early teens and prbably knew more about using / building / repairing computers by age 16 than most IT graduates know at age 21.

I remember in my first year at uni, I asked a friend doing IT what 'FPU' stood for. She had no clue.
 
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AberystwythLAD said:
Programming is software engineering which is computing.

IT is top level stuff. Only true computer scientists delve into the deep stuff. Programming, command line, Assembler, OS's, algorithms, etc. IT is basic in comparison and thats why computer science/software engineering grads are much more respected than IT grads unless the IT grad done their degree at a university where the IT degrees have a common first year to computer science degree students.

Trust me, I'm an engineer. ;)
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Unfortunately complete rubbish. Most computing courses will cover programming, Assembler, OS's algorithms etc.

Your employability post graduation (which, is the most important bit, right), will rely upon your ability to apply all of that to something useful.

My experience so far has shown that CompSci grads are no more respected than computing grads. It's up to each of you to prove your worth to your prospective employers, and with that attitude, you're already behind.
 
What??? EA Games only hire programmers with 'Computer Science' for starters. They wont even read your application if you did an IT course.
 
Sorry, but IT is to Computer Science what pre schooling is to Physics.

People who got low grades and went onto IT courses will naturally be defensive of it, but you are fooling yourself if you think an IT qualification is in anyway as respected or as difficult as Computer Science.

Yes Computer Science graduates are more respected across the computing industry than IT graduates, this been the case for over a decade.
 
bhavv said:
Sorry, but IT is to Computer Science what pre schooling is to Physics.

People who got low grades and went onto IT courses will naturally be defensive of it, but you are fooling yourself if you think an IT qualification is in anyway as respected or as difficult as Computer Science.

Yes Computer Science graduates are more respected across the computing industry than IT graduates, this been the case for over a decade.
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For reference, I didn't get low grades.

For me, it's all about employability and earning potential. I took Computing as I believed it would make me more employable, given the range of things that would be covered.

For me, it worked. I am earning significantly more than any one of my friends that went the CompSci route.

I realise that this will not be the case for all, but saying that an IT qualification is not respected is rubbish. How many graduate recruitment days have you ran? How many people have you personally employed?
 
CompSci is more respected than all those two-a-penny CCNA/MS certified ICT drones.

Everything one of those drones knows, a top class CompSci person could pick up within days or weeks. Within a month or two they'd be more proficient and fluent at it than the drone. I've seen it happen, including the throwing of the toys out the pram by the drone when they realise what's happened.

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PS: A "Computing" degree is just what some uni's call a CompSci degree. They're one and the same.
 
Basher said:
For reference, I didn't get low grades.

For me, it's all about employability and earning potential. I took Computing as I believed it would make me more employable, given the range of things that would be covered.

For me, it worked. I am earning significantly more than any one of my friends that went the CompSci route.

I realise that this will not be the case for all, but saying that an IT qualification is not respected is rubbish. How many graduate recruitment days have you ran? How many people have you personally employed?
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Computing =/= IT / ICT.

IT + ICT you spend all day learning how to use spreadsheets, databases, and email. It doesnt involve any kind of programming, its all about simply using the software.

IT / ICT is over saturated right now. There are far too many graduates in this field because its an easy peasy mickey mouse course.
 
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NathanE said:
CompSci is more respected than all those two-a-penny CCNA/MS certified ICT drones.

Everything one of those drones knows, a top class CompSci person could pick up within days or weeks. Within a month or two they'd be more proficient and fluent at it than the drone. I've seen it happen, including the throwing of the toys out the pram by the drone when they realise what's happened.

</thread>

PS: A "Computing" degree is just what some uni's call a CompSci degree. They're one and the same.
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Absolutely agree. The key is one needs to learn why/how things function like they do, rather than just the process of doing them, if you see what I mean. With this knowledge, you can apply logic to all sorts of new technology and pick it up very quickly.
 
Basher said:
Absolutely agree. The key is one needs to learn why/how things function like they do, rather than just the process of doing them, if you see what I mean. With this knowledge, you can apply logic to all sorts of new technology and pick it up very quickly.
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Why do you think your Computing degree is an ICT degree? Where did you study it?

As long as it covered programming, data structures, algorithms etc... you're all good, so you should stop talking yourself down!
 
NathanE said:
Why do you think your Computing degree is an ICT degree? Where did you study it?

As long as it covered programming, data structures, algorithms etc... you're all good, so you should stop talking yourself down!
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I don't. I think there was some confusion on what the previous poster classed as Computing (which has subsequently been cleared up) :)
 
Basher said:
I don't. I think there was some confusion on what the previous poster classed as Computing (which has subsequently been cleared up)
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Basher said:
For me, it's all about employability and earning potential. I took Computing as I believed it would make me more employable, given the range of things that would be covered.

For me, it worked. I am earning significantly more than any one of my friends that went the CompSci route.
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This makes no sense though?

Am I just being thick or something!?
 
I did a Physics degree and before doing so I had next to no experience in computing or coding of any kind. But, as I found out during my degree, coding is actually quite a staple component of being a scientist. I found it VERY hard picking up codes (as it was a completely new and alien subject to me, its also often a very different way of thinking) such as C++ and even basic FORTRAN77, but since leaving university and starting my current job (heavily physics based) I have had to charge headlong into a lot of these codes to get the results I need.

I would say that it would be crucial for anybody wanting to head down the maths/sciences routes to take a computational course, or at least try to incorporate a module into their course that could give them a basic grounding. Of course there are many forms of computing, and many different appliations. I'm sure many on here are heavily into computing within the IT industry and so probably already have a good grounding. But there are many other applications besides IT, where computing is an important part of the job.
 
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