Project CARS 3

Twinz said:
"keep the cars permanently in their operating sweet spot"

^ This would have been a good feature of an *optional* arcade mode, but it's not optional.
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Yeah sure, I’m always a fan of options. But I mean PC2 has the option to keep that sort of stuff turned off and constantly gets **** on by sim purists anyway.

Perhaps they just decided it wasn’t worth the effort!
 
I have decided it's not worth my money. -Certainly not at full price. I may pick it up when it gets cheap, out of curiosity.
 
Twinz said:
I have driven some of the road cars in PC2 in real life, and PC2 did a great job with those. I also rented an 86 on the Nurburgring and practiced for the trip in PC2. -And PC2 absolutely NAILED that combo.

PC2 has some bugs, but it's proven itself to be very SIMilar to real life in every instance I have been able to test.

PC3, however, has always-optimal tires that "transition" themselves while driving for various conditions....very arcadey.
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Its nothing to do with pcars bugs, the fact remains its FFB and physics are at the very bottom of the pile.
SMS going the arcade route with pcars 3 proves the point even more they are unable to make decent ffb and physics compared to ,rF2, ACC,AMS 1 and 2,AC,R3E .
20+ years simracing and 4 years real life racing RT200 touring cars tells me i know good physics, pcars never had and never will have a good physics engine, your kidding yourself to think otherwise.
Reiza are currently making a show of them with AMS2.

No doubt pcars 3 will be a good racing game but a rubbish sim and will probably make it a lot more profitable this way.
 
I might consider giving PC3 a chance once the price drops, rather expensive for what it offers and Deluxe edition is extremely overpriced.

Seen a few YT beta videos and it's not all bad and I expect the final version to be identical given previous games however, I would like to see how it drives with all assists off on both game pad and wheel controllers.
 
Cully said:
Its nothing to do with pcars bugs, the fact remains its FFB and physics are at the very bottom of the pile.
SMS going the arcade route with pcars 3 proves the point even more they are unable to make decent ffb and physics compared to ,rF2, ACC,AMS 1 and 2,AC,R3E .
20+ years simracing and 4 years real life racing RT200 touring cars tells me i know good physics, pcars never had and never will have a good physics engine, your kidding yourself to think otherwise.
Reiza are currently making a show of them with AMS2.

No doubt pcars 3 will be a good racing game but a rubbish sim and will probably make it a lot more profitable this way.
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Reiza is currently using the Madness engine in AMS2. (The same engine as Pcars)

As I already stated I have driven some of the road cars in PC2 IRL and they match up well. I have also driven a full combo from PC2 and it also matched up well. Here's a copy/paste from my experience with that combo:

Twinz said:
Well, I just got back from a European vacation that included some laps on the Nurburgring! We also went to Italy and France for the standard tourist stuff too. I feel like I just had 4 vacations crammed into one week so I'm wore out, but very happy.

Anyway, I wanted to share my experience on the Nurburgring as someone who had only driven it in sims (primarily PC2) before hopping in a rental GT86 and taking some laps IRL. Not only was this my first time on the Nurburgring, it was my first track day....and PC2+VR turned out to be great practice for the real thing! **with some important caveats**

1) The forces pulling on you while driving at the limit can be surprising, distracting, and even disorienting. Some people get used to it quicker than others, but sims, even motion-rig sims, can't reproduce the full real-life effect. My RL experience with driving-G-forces comes primarily from years and years of autocrossing. Autocrossing is not the only way to get used to RL driving G-forces, but it may be the cheapest....but most of the autocross events I have driven lack serious elevation changes. (Usually by design)

2) Elevation changes add another layer of G-forces to mix and the ring has a lot of them. VR helps bring this home visually, but still can't recreate the full effect of the ground falling out from under you at high speed. My yearly pilgrimage to the Tail of the Dragon helped acclimatize me to the effect, but it still took a lap or two to get reacquainted with that sensation on the ring.

Before I get to just how awesome I think PC2 is, I wanted to first point out that it's not the real thing. I don't want anyone who reads this to think that any amount of sim time, PC2 or otherwise, will fully prepare you to drive at the limit anywhere IRL....and certainly not at the Nurburgring.

Also, the 86 I rented came with upgraded brake pads for the track, so while I experienced no brake fade in PC2 or RL, I don't know if PC2 accurately represents how the stock brakes hold up on the track.

Now that that's out of the way....

With respect to the Nordschleife/GT-86 combination, PC2 is freaking AWESOME!

All the sketchy parts of the RL Nurbugring matched the sketchy parts in PC2. -Not just in where they were but how the 86 responded to various inputs at those spots. It was freaking uncanny. I wouldn't recommend learning vehicle dynamics using *only* a sim, but the cause/effect relationship between the car, the track, and the driver's inputs, is well simulated in PC2 with this combo.

I made it a point to avoid the curbs most of the time as a safety cushion, but I did *sample* the curbs a couple times just to see if they were accurately depicted in the game and the seem similar to real life. The one thing PC2 can't convey is the mechanical empathy/guilt caused by using the curbs. In the sim, I so don't care, but IRL, I was thinking "I'm sorry car." It just felt like shocks and alignment's would suffer shorter lifespans if curb surfing was the norm.
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And here's a side-by-side comparison of me practicing for a track I have never been to in PC2, and then the actual real-life driving with the same combo:

In the weeks leading up to the vacation, I practiced the ring as if it were real. I stayed off of the curbs, and banned myself for the rest of the day if I ever did something that I thought might even get me looked-at wrong on the track. (sliding off track, spinning etc) My RL pace (in the absence of traffic) was about what my "pretend it's real" practice in PC2 was.


The physics in PC2 also do well with the nuanced nature of mistakes and the " costs" associated with them. I run data in my real car and I've been able to quantify the cost of doing things like getting greedy with the throttle on a corner exit and causing wheel-spin. -Or cooking a corner entry and the subsequent late throttle application...the distance vs average speed scenario of turns over 90 degrees...(and more)

The "cost" of mistakes in PC2 matches up well to real-life, and those costs vary in direct proportion to the severity of the mistakes (like they do in real life.)

I have compared PC2 to RL and it compares very well.

Suggesting that going the arcade route with PC3 "proves" anything about PC1 and 2 is just twaddle.
 
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No offence but pcars is nothing like real life, yes AMS2 uses the same madness engine, the difference is they know how to code realistic physics unlike sms.

Your clearly an sms fanboy, no point even interacting with you on the topic.
Your utterly deluded of you think pcars is realistic, its bottom of the sim pile for a reason.
 
Cully said:
No offence but pcars is nothing like real life, yes AMS2 uses the same madness engine, the difference is they know how to code realistic physics unlike sms.

Your clearly an sms fanboy, no point even interacting with you on the topic.
Your utterly deluded of you think pcars is realistic, its bottom of the sim pile for a reason.
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And yet there it is....The GT-86 in PC2 driving just like a real GT86 on the real Nurburgring. And since I'm the one piloting both the real and the simulated 86, I'm in a pretty good position to say how the two compared from the driver's seat.

I live near my local autocross venue (literally 5 minutes away) and have invited friends at the track to try out my sim rig after a day of racing real cars. Most of them were impressed with PC2. Two of them said they preferred to stick with iRacing. (One of those two still bought a copy of PC2 after trying it in my rig. Lol)

A few asked me to help them build complete systems from scratch after trying PC2....for PC2.

The interesting thing about my situation is that my friends and I all have the same point of reference. (Driving real cars at the limit) And we are all familiar with each other's driving skills. So when we have differing opinions on sims, we don't assume it's because the other person "can't drive" or "doesn't know about real driving" or any of the other reflexive fanboy positions commonly seen in the "which sim is best" debates online.

We all just want whatever sim we are in to "fool us" into thinking we are actually driving. The majority of my friends from the track (that have tried PC2) find that PC2 does this well.

The debate amongst groups of strangers online tends to remind me of the "Emperor's New Clothes" children's' story. Once a large-enough group deems a sim to be realistic or arcade, everyone who differs with the group is presumed to not know what they are talking about.

"Good drivers like such and such sim." If you don't like that sim, well then, it means you are not a good driver. Likewise, "Good drivers don't like such and such sim." So if you do like that sim, you obviously aren't a good driver.

This group-think creates a kind of peer-pressure that helps perpetuate perceptions.
 
Twinz said:
And yet there it is....The GT-86 in PC2 driving just like a real GT86 on the real Nurburgring. And since I'm the one piloting both the real and the simulated 86, I'm in a pretty good position to say how the two compared from the driver's seat.

I live near my local autocross venue (literally 5 minutes away) and have invited friends at the track to try out my sim rig after a day of racing real cars. Most of them were impressed with PC2. Two of them said they preferred to stick with iRacing. (One of those two still bought a copy of PC2 after trying it in my rig. Lol)

A few asked me to help them build complete systems from scratch after trying PC2....for PC2.

The interesting thing about my situation is that my friends and I all have the same point of reference. (Driving real cars at the limit) And we are all familiar with each other's driving skills. So when we have differing opinions on sims, we don't assume it's because the other person "can't drive" or "doesn't know about real driving" or any of the other reflexive fanboy positions commonly seen in the "which sim is best" debates online.

We all just want whatever sim we are in to "fool us" into thinking we are actually driving. The majority of my friends from the track (that have tried PC2) find that PC2 does this well.

The debate amongst groups of strangers online tends to remind me of the "Emperor's New Clothes" children's' story. Once a large-enough group deems a sim to be realistic or arcade, everyone who differs with the group is presumed to not know what they are talking about.

"Good drivers like such and such sim." If you don't like that sim, well then, it means you are not a good driver. Likewise, "Good drivers don't like such and such sim." So if you do like that sim, you obviously aren't a good driver.

This group-think creates a kind of peer-pressure that helps perpetuate perceptions.
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Its like that with most things in life
 
Watching jb's stream, and i am shocked by how bad it looks, the graphics are bad, hope it drives better
 
Looking at the Game Riot video, lots of texture pop in and looks very washed out, I know early video but with a new Forza coming out think it may struggle. Maybe they can turn it around and the gameplay/handling could be lots of fun.
 
3 More days, i pre-ordered. Never done that before, and it's been a long while since i dropped £50 on a game.

The street and scenic routes look amazing. One of the main draws, that the single player, and finally a decent VR title that isn't pure sim.
 
What a mess of a game. Quite happy with it switching to an arcade sim, but I will go back to Forza Horizon for my fix I think.
Shame as I backed the original PCARS like Jimmy.
 
Was looking forward to Jimmys opinion.
and.....I Still might pick it up on Friday, a Grid esque game that runs better on a controller than a wheel, I'm in.

Chill on the sofa, over a bank holiday weekend.
Course CDKeys already jacked the price up, this feels like a £29.99 launch game.
 
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