You don't know that though. Your posts are full of constant assumptions.
Project Management "Methodologies" - Agile?
- Thread starter panthro
- Start date
You don't know that though. Your posts are full of constant assumptions.
If you're not willing to learn or accept that there's other types of projects, where these sort of methodologies absolutely do add value (no assumptions there, that's real-world experience) then that's fine.
I'm struggling to work out what sort of point you're trying to make. Apart from the fact that you are super-mega-awesome and run massively complex and successful projects.
How did you learn how to manage projects? That might be a better contribution...
Soldato
- Joined
- 11 Sep 2013
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I work in engineering, construction and utilities so would want to train in something that is relevant to these industries. Any suggestions or thoughts would be helpful. Thanks
Just one suggestion/thought - I work in civil engineering for a utilities company, supporting a team of 26 engineers (Chartered, Incorporated, Grad/post-grad and all that ilk), some of whom have over 45 years experience under their belts.
They all believe that the best PMs for this environment are those who've gotten engineering degrees, as the PM side is covered as part of the course and covered better than on dedicated PM courses... They also lament this, as it seems more engineer-degree'd people become PMs, rather than engineers!!
Just one perspective 'from the field', as it were. Might be of use?
I've never denied there are other types of projects. You're the one making constant assumptions.
And how did I learn? Chucked in at the deep end. Sink or swim. I swam.
Just to add to what ttask says above - engineering degree.
perhaps I should have expanded - see link for reference
http://www.changequest.co.uk
any specific questions you may have fire away
There are some threads where you need to just walk away...
Haha indeed...
He's come in to a thread asking for help, and essentially said you don't need help you just need to be awesome at it...
I haven't asked for help.
You've have come into a thread that was asking for help. Don't worry, we know you don't need any help
You've have come into a thread that was asking for help. Don't worry, we know you don't need any help
Clearly you do with your English then. Since your single sentence said "He's come in to a thread asking for help, and essentially said you don't need help you just need to be awesome at it".
Which implies the person asking for help is the same one who said you don't need help.
Which in itself is a bit of management advice - be very clear in communication about what you require.
Ah, so this is where we've got to then. I'll endeavour to make it clear:
Panthro (OP) has created a thread requesting information regarding some training in different Project Management Methodologies. This is the Careers and Development forum after all so it's understandable. Enter Dis86 (5 years experience, great-guy and by all accounts a PM god.) states the following:
In his 5 years experience in one field, he has written-off all the methodologies on behalf of the OP as a waste of time because they simply don't apply to his field. His field is just too complex, and these methodologies are just a waste of time.
When another user then tries to point out to Dis86(PM God) that other projects do exist and these methodologies are not a waste of time but add real value and structure to a project the thread descends into pointlessness.
I think that about sums this up.
OP, ignore this muppet. Agile and Prince are still perfectly valid, speak with your employer if you need clarification on the way the business is working and start there. I will agree with Dis86 in the sink/swim element to an extent that you only truly learn when you get involved in a project. The training will teach you a lot but it needs to be supplemented with real life experience IMO.
More Gornall fail at reading there - another lesson in project management, read things properly, read them again and read them another time. At no point did I deny other projects exist.
Working for 2 'super massives' those methodologies were tried and dismissed. The training they provide only applies to certain rigid situations and applies limited ways of doing things. There's a reason 2 of the largest and most successful companies in history don't send their PM's on those courses.
Sticking to a system can be good however it removes one key aspect of project management. Flexibility. Learn to do things your way with your own techniques and it will suit you far better than any gimmicky course. If it doesn't work, you'll soon find out and then learn and improve.
Working for 2 'super massives' those methodologies were tried and dismissed. The training they provide only applies to certain rigid situations and applies limited ways of doing things. There's a reason 2 of the largest and most successful companies in history don't send their PM's on those courses.
Sticking to a system can be good however it removes one key aspect of project management. Flexibility. Learn to do things your way with your own techniques and it will suit you far better than any gimmicky course. If it doesn't work, you'll soon find out and then learn and improve.
Honestly Dis86, you've offered nothing to the point of this thread. The Op is asking for materials/providers clearly because he feels these methodologies do apply to his line of work, who are you to say they don't? You instantly said they all sound like a waste of time and how they don't apply to you.
I don't think anyone actually gives a damn about you, or what you do, or how you do it. You've seen Project Management in the title and walked in swinging your dick around like some big-shot new style PM who is cutting edge and doesn't do what the books say because he's doing it his own way.
Anyone else getting a semi-successful David Brent vibe from Dis? Calling it now. Dis86..door to door salesman in 5 more years.
And of course he feels like they apply to his line of work, that's how they're marketed. They are nothing more than a repackaging of common sense, good planning and the idea of splitting tasks down in to manageable lumps - which is again common sense.
I did instantly say they sound like a waste of time, because quite frankly they do. There is nothing new in them. There is nothing novel. They are basically just branding exercises and if you take a look in to who runs them and who sponsors them you'll soon see that.
Now you're also making another mistake (this is number 3 for you!) to ignore someone who has PROVEN ideas on how to do things.
Agile/Prince were developed over many many years. They are more generic, and some of it is indeed common sense. No argument there.
The flip side is, they are portable, broadly applicable and have a proven (for more than 5 years I'll add) track record of helping teams deliver results.
In all seriousness, I don't doubt you've proven to your employer you are capable, or even great at what you do.
Your apparent disregard of everyone else's experience and seemingly naive attitude that people can't learn from these things is unbelievable however.
I said it before in the thread you'll be using elements of these methodologies for sure, so to say they are a waste of time is just silly. Or arrogance...not sure which.
I've never said they can't learn from those things. Just that they're wastes of time - everything they teach can be learned elsewhere and probably more effectively elsewhere. Like I've said, and actually you've reinforced, they teach nothing new. Nothing novel. They are just a little box of branding and marketing.
Some people prefer learning by being taught. Why is that so unacceptable?
Again, offered nothing to the thread other than why the OP shouldn't do what you think is wrong. He hasn't asked if he should go on a course, he's made the decision he wants to and now is looking for someone who has done the same to offer recommendations.
Saying not to do those courses is an alternative. It's offering another option.
You didn't say that though did you. That would be fine.
You've boiled this down the the courses, when throughout this thread you've blanket argued that the methodologies themselves are redundant. That's where peoples grievances lay.
If you'd have said, "Courses are a waste of time IMO, I used XYZ when I needed answers/ideas" I can guarantee people would have had much less of an issue with what you were saying. Hell I'd agree with you personally, but that's irrelevant.
You've boiled this down the the courses, when throughout this thread you've blanket argued that the methodologies themselves are redundant. That's where peoples grievances lay.
If you'd have said, "Courses are a waste of time IMO, I used XYZ when I needed answers/ideas" I can guarantee people would have had much less of an issue with what you were saying. Hell I'd agree with you personally, but that's irrelevant.