Caporegime
I'm the guy making sure the trucks are loaded correctly.
Not telling the client the trucks will be loaded in x or y way.
Project Management "Methodologies" - Agile?
- Thread starter panthro
- Start date
I'm the guy making sure the trucks are loaded correctly.
Not telling the client the trucks will be loaded in x or y way.
And how do you do that...
examples please.
Are you in the depot, stood watching? or would you say it's more the responsibility of the Depot Manager to make sure his trucks are loaded?
Caporegime
Put it this way, on my last project I was literally in the hold of the vessel at 2 in the morning as they loaded the hardware on board. Yes the deck supervisor was there, yes the production supervisor was there. However I've been with that product prior to design - nobody knew more about every aspect of it than me.
I approved the lifting and handling procedures, I ensured it was handled correctly.
I approved the storage procedures, I ensured it was properly loaded and fastened to its transport cradles.
Delegation should never be used for such key tasks. They were highlighted by myself and other members of the PM team as major risks and as such mitigation was put in place, that mitigation included me standing there with a radio in my hand.
For the record on that one they nearly did balls it up - our structural lead had specified additional support under the product - would have taken about 30 mins to get it in place. The deck super had mis-read a drawing and didn't notice that it was needed.
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Associate
That's a very hands on approach that flies completely in the face of a methodology such as agile. Not saying you're right or wrong to take that approach, that's the point with these methodologies to correctly apply them where suitable, but in some cases such as the development of a major IT system it's not possible to be that hands on as a PM, nor is it particularly helpful to be.
Caporegime
And that's my point. If you're using/trained in a methodology you'll find yourself in situations where it just does not serve. Sticking to a rigid set of guidelines/method does not allow for the full flexibility that successful project management requires.
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This is where I thought this would be going.
I don't doubt you're a good PM, I really don't. But your doubt of these 'methodologies' is easy because you have an understanding to a level of detail beyond say another PM who hasn't worked in your field.
How can you apply all of the above to delivering an Enterprise Datawarehouse, or a multi-site CRM? etc? Knowing how to handle a specific piece of equipment is useless information to me, and understanding the syntax of C# and Kimball design is useless to you in your field.
These methodologies are frameworks, they aren't designed to deliver a project in bio-engineering, a CRM or a Office relocation. They are frameworks than can be broadly applied to many many fields and allow people working in different fields (on the same project) to speak the same language.
There are specialist PM's sure, but if you came to an interview with me for a multi-site project, and said the reason you delivered this project engineering project well was because you understood the engineering and applied common sense I don't know how I could use that....
However, if you could demonstrate how you delivered projects independent of detailed product knowledge and showed a true ability to manage (not supervise) then I'd be more interested.
There are very successful and very good PM's that work independent of field or vertical, they are just good project managers. I want the loading of the truck to be completely handled by OPs, I can see they advantage of my PM understanding that...but that's not their role.
And likewise having a very specific piece of experience in one field doesn't apply elsewhere.
But to say these methodologies are a waste of time is ridiculous.
Caporegime
You'are assuming again. I don't just have experience in one field.
5 years as a PM, how much experience in how many fields do you have?
Feel free to give examples of how you'd ensure that piece of equipment was loaded when you have to entirely rely on the knowledge of the team on the ground. What power/tools/methods do you apply then?
Don
I hope the OP actually got something useful out of this thread, because I can't see that there is anything particularly relevant in the last few posts.
I would suggest that you both take a break from this thread.
Thanks - Armageus
I would suggest that you both take a break from this thread.
Thanks - Armageus
Caporegime
Telecoms, risk assessment and construction. Though construction is relatively new but seems to be going OK so far.
I'd apply the tool of paper and that funny grey box on my desk that keeps making noises when I don't want it to.
Signed receipt from the driver/haulier/whatever to say it's on board. Phonecall from our guys to tell me when it's done.
Without witnessing it with my own peepers I can never prove that it was done correctly however you can ensure those doing it are trained and competent and provide approved procedures that should be worked to.
a) I know as soon as it's done - phonecall
b) I can prove that it was done - collection/signed bill of materials.
c) I don't know it was done properly - that requires trust - but ensuring procedures are in place helps.
That requires no methodology. It's just logical.
I'd apply the tool of paper and that funny grey box on my desk that keeps making noises when I don't want it to.
Signed receipt from the driver/haulier/whatever to say it's on board. Phonecall from our guys to tell me when it's done.
Without witnessing it with my own peepers I can never prove that it was done correctly however you can ensure those doing it are trained and competent and provide approved procedures that should be worked to.
a) I know as soon as it's done - phonecall
b) I can prove that it was done - collection/signed bill of materials.
c) I don't know it was done properly - that requires trust - but ensuring procedures are in place helps.
That requires no methodology. It's just logical.
You've just described our Project Management admin team...no influence or real responsibility for the project to be delivered just liaise and keep things organised for when the real influence is around
Soldato
As someone who's done PRINCE2 practitioner, is relatively new to project management (1.5-2 years experience) and works in an engineering field (manufacturing machinery installation), the above conversation was actually quite interesting as it's rare I get to hear or see 2 very polarised view points on PM.
I've highlighted in bold the important point here that seems to be influencing all of your posts and your entire opinion.
Almost all the methodologies being spoken about in here are designed to give people a framework to work within. It's then up to the PM to tailor that so that it makes sense for the Project itself and the environment being worked in.
PRINCE2 etc don't teach someone how to be a successful PM and I've never heard anyone claim they do. What they do however is explain some of the key concepts and provide some structure. They also allow organisations to work in a repeatable way and readily bring in new resources who understand the framework being followed.
My advice to the OP is as per my earlier post. If you want to cover the basics with some formal training I'd go with PRINCE2 or anything from APM.
The real learning will come from experience so do what you can to get involved in running or supporting the delivery of them yourself.
This is often overlooked. For example, PRINCE2 is sometimes regarded as being a rigid structure but it even has a section of the syllabus dedicated to tailoring.
As for the question in hand, I've done various courses (PRINCE2 / CSM / Postgrad modules, MSc research project) and I would say PRINCE2 should still be relevant in your disciplines. Agile tends to more prevalent in IT - that's not to say agile methodologies aren't applied in other disciplines, but a lot of the focus has been around IT and software development in particular.
Makes sense - you don't necessarily get to change the ground floor of a skyscraper much once the other floors are built on top of it. Whereas, figuratively speaking, you sort of can with an 'agile' IT project.
There seems to an assumption here that more expensive = more complex. I've never found that to be a given, and is almost always given on forums has a flawed way of validation for a comment. Is only needed if the poster things their point/comment won't stand on its own.
IT Projects are very different to projects in other industries. Which is why something like Agile will give better ROI in IT than it might in other industries.
The problem with these methodologies is that the people using them might be unsuited to project management entirely. In short they are best suited to those that know what they are doing.
IT Projects are very different to projects in other industries. Which is why something like Agile will give better ROI in IT than it might in other industries.
The problem with these methodologies is that the people using them might be unsuited to project management entirely. In short they are best suited to those that know what they are doing.
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I want to take some project management training; having working in a project management environment within a supply chain environment, I think undertaking some sort of training in a specific methodology might help?
I've been reading about Agile and a lot of people having been saying that it's relevance is going to surpass that of PRINCE 2 etc. Also from what I've read it's quite specific to the IT industry...is this true? I work in engineering, construction and utilities so would want to train in something that is relevant to these industries. Any suggestions or thoughts would be helpful. Thanks
I think you'd need to get advice from people with experience in the industry you are in. Also look at what the job market for your industry is looking for.
People are often not logical, or team players.