Project managers

ps3ud0 said:
Then why start the thread? I know you want some sympathy but you wont get it from here if you cant even be bothered to explain what the exact issue is...

You really are making a pit for yourself - where a personal issue with a colleague is affecting a working relationship - it just doesnt happen when youre a professional...

ps3ud0 :cool:
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I don't want sympathy, I'm just venting. I feel like the slime from this PM is making me dirty and I'm a little afraid okay? Threads have been started for much, much less!

Oh yeah, on another note, there's this girl I like and......
 
Just go back and say the same estimate then if you are unhappy to dedicate more time to it. I doubt the PM can assume your original 'guess' was as far as youre concerned wholly accurate without caveats...

/thread

ps3ud0 :cool:
 
ps3ud0 said:
Just go back and say the same estimate then if you are unhappy to dedicate more time to it. I doubt the PM can assume your original 'guess' was as far as youre concerned wholly accurate without caveats...

/thread

ps3ud0 :cool:
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So the problem was that I used phrase 'I guess' rather than 'I estimate'? Maybe it's me but I would assume that a PM has half a brain enough to realise I didn't just roll a die and pick a number out of thin air...
 
nero120 said:
I agree, but as I've said this task is a few days work, and I am new on the project. In your opinion, exactly what am I supposed to do to make that estimate more precise? Spend more time 'investigating' when I should just be getting this task done? This is a bad PM.
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In this instance I would agree for a "few" days work it probably isnt worth it however a "few" days work can turn into a "few" weeks work when it becomes apparent the problem isn't as simple as first expected... the guy is taking an overall view of the situation... look at it from his point of view:

* you are new and therefore lack understanding of what's going on
* he has a "whole" project to look at not just one piece of development
* your one piece of development could have further implications down the line and cost money / time

In this instance I don't see the harm in asking for you to take a proper look at the problem, he is being cautious. In fairness an approach I would take with any developer I was not familiar with...
 
Pneumonic said:
In this instance I would agree for a "few" days work it probably isnt worth it however a "few" days work can turn into a "few" weeks work when it becomes apparent the problem isn't as simple as first expected... the guy is taking an overall view of the situation... look at it from his point of view:

* you are new and therefore lack understanding of what's going on
* he has a "whole" project to look at not just one piece of development
* your one piece of development could have further implications down the line and cost money / time

In this instance I don't see the harm in asking for you to take a proper look at the problem, he is being cautious. In fairness an approach I would take with any developer I was not familiar with...
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True, but is this not the case with any piece of work? There are unknowns, and you cannot expect a developer, especially one unfamiliar with a project, to be able to predict them all.

There is always the potential for big issues to crop up, I wouldn't have thought that one who has just been assigned to the project could forsee them so well, and the fact that the PM expects me to doesn't exactly leave me brimming with confidence.

What makes it worse is that I'm only doing this work because of this PMs inability to resource properly. I've been dragged off my project to help them.
 
Whenever I think of Steve Ballmer, I always think of Team America World Police.

Replace the "Maaatt Daaaaymoon" with "Steeeveee Baaalllmmeeer". Works a treat!! :D
 
nero120 said:
True, but is this not the case with any piece of work? There are unknowns, and you cannot expect a developer, especially one unfamiliar with a project, to be able to predict them all.

There is always the potential for big issues to crop up, I wouldn't have thought that one who has just been assigned to the project could forsee them so well, and the fact that the PM expects me to doesn't exactly leave me brimming with confidence.

What makes it worse is that I'm only doing this work because of this PMs inability to resource properly. I've been dragged off my project to help them.
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You can not predict all problems, however you can with some planning and proper methodology prevent a lot of them.. spending a sometime looking at the issue might seem a waste of time but I would rather my developers spend some time looking at the problem rather than jumping straight in and then coming back a week later saying...

"actually you know we said last week it would take 20 days.... well its going to take 45 days"

as a good PM you manage and eliminate as much risk as possible, this means having a good understanding of the problem and good planning.. In this instance for two days work I would agree is probably a little overzealous.. but better safe than sorry sometimes
 
Nero, i'm not a PM, nor are any of my friends etc.

All you've done is shown yourself to have a very poor understanding of the role of a PM and what they do.

I could probably spend 30 minutes quoting all of your posts basically and ripping them to shreds but I just can't be bothered. I'm glad I don't work with you basically :)
 
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I'm not sure that I agree that the PM in the OP's post is a problem.

I've worked with good, bad and incompetent PM's over the years ... including the one one who would lie to us about timescales and requirements and tell the customer things other than had been agreed previously about when things were done and including the one who was just incompetent (at basic PM skills let alone knowing what the project was doing).

I've worked with a pretty good one recently who seemed to understand his job and how to deal with problems when they occurred ... the only problem he has is he looks like Mr Burns from the Simpsons.
 
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