Project managers

nero120

nero120

nero120

Soldato
Joined
12 Jan 2004
Posts
6,824
Location
Londinium
Yep, just about the most irratating form of 'human' life.

PM: "So Mr developer, now that you've only just been put on this project that you've never seen or worked on before, how long will this task take?"
Me: "Well, there's a number of tasks that I haven't even looked at yet, but I'd guess a couple of days"
PM: "Riiiiiggghtt. Well, if you could have another look and email me some more definite times that would be great"
Me: :/

Why are they unable to get it through their thick skulls that a developer cannot predict the fricking future and can only give a rough estimate to how long a task will take, especially when they know barely anything about the project they've just been assigned to? What the hell do they expect you to say:

"Yes it will take me precisely 44.10345 minutes to complete this task."

Jog on you overbearing, over-payed, hyped-up admin assistant.

Post all hate for PMs in here. :)
 
The PM only needs a figure in terms of days or half days, it is to allow him to predict when work will finish and schedule further work that could be dependant on your code. If you can't estimate to this extent then may I suggest your not quite the top developer you think you are?
 
Aww my dad was the pm for when they recently changed the mushy pea cannery in Worksop over to a bisto best and saxa salt packaging factory..

I hope he's not hated :(
 
I don't see the problem really...

Your new to the project and haven't yet had time to calculate how long it will take you. He has asked you to review the work again and estimate how long it will take.

I'm sorry but you company most employ poor PMs if all you think they are is over-hyped admin assistants, that, or you have no idea what their job actually involves.
 
Whilst you might find it annoying its a necessity. As a professional you should be able to break down your task/project into key stages and give realistic deadlines for each based on the amount of days/half days you think are required. How are overall departmental budgets going to be managed without decent forecasting/project management?
 
JBuk said:
Tell them it's their job to manage time
Click to expand...

Yes, which is why he needs to know how long tasks will take.

To be honest, I'd expect a developer to know (obviously once he's got visibility into each element) how long the tasks should take best/worst scenarios and the inter-dependencies between each task. I'd want to know as an estimate how long it will take, and the elments which could affect this time.

B.
 
nero120 said:
Me: "Well, there's a number of tasks that I haven't even looked at yet, but I'd guess a couple of days"
PM: "Riiiiiggghtt. Well, if you could have another look and email me some more definite times that would be great"
Click to expand...

So you were asked how long something would take, you gave a guess and couched it as that. You were then asked to spend a little more time looking at it so you can give a firmer time-line. Oh my how terrible! I really don't see what your problem is? Would you have preferred if the PM had said 'no, I think you can do it quicker, get it on my desk by tomorrow'?
 
a1ex2001 said:
The PM only needs a figure in terms of days or half days, it is to allow him to predict when work will finish and schedule further work that could be dependant on your code. If you can't estimate to this extent then may I suggest your not quite the top developer you think you are?
Click to expand...

Lol, thought I smelled the stench of decay. So you must be one of them. If you expect developers to:

a.) Be able to read minds
b.) Be able to read the future
c.) Be your friend

then you are sadly mistaken. If a rough estimate isn't good enough for you then as I said, jog on. Here's a digit to stick in your stupid excel spreadsheet/MS Project chart/Gantt chart you sodden nose hair!
 
Wardie said:
I don't see the problem really...

Your new to the project and haven't yet had time to calculate how long it will take you. He has asked you to review the work again and estimate how long it will take.

I'm sorry but you company most employ poor PMs if all you think they are is over-hyped admin assistants, that, or you have no idea what their job actually involves.
Click to expand...

I've worked with plenty of PMs in large and small organisations and I know the type mate.

So, either:

a.) You are a PM
b.) You are married/going out with/related to a PM

because no sane human would seek to defend them. They're worse than tax men.
 
Wow, sounds like you need to take a step away from the keyboard and then take a good long hard look at yourself. From what you wrote in the OP, what the PM asked you was perfectly reasonable. If he shouted at you, telling you that you are usless streak of ****, then you could have a good vent.
 
fini said:
So you were asked how long something would take, you gave a guess and couched it as that. You were then asked to spend a little more time looking at it so you can give a firmer time-line. Oh my how terrible! I really don't see what your problem is? Would you have preferred if the PM had said 'no, I think you can do it quicker, get it on my desk by tomorrow'?
Click to expand...

Probably made it sound more innocent than it was, and it was just one example of the common behaviour of PMs. No estimate is ever good enough, they want exact time scales when you can't possibly see all pitfalls. The more complex the task the more ancy they get when you give them a figure.
 
nero120 said:
Lol, thought I smelled the stench of decay. So you must be one of them. If you expect developers to:

a.) Be able to read minds
b.) Be able to read the future
c.) Be your friend

then you are sadly mistaken. If a rough estimate isn't good enough for you then as I said, jog on. Here's a digit to stick in your stupid excel spreadsheet/MS Project chart/Gantt chart you sodden nose hair!
Click to expand...

No, I expect developers to estimate how long the tasks will take and what could affect this timing. I don't want them to guess, I want them to estimate.

You seem to have little understanding of how projects actually work, lucking we have PM's to do this.
 
Kodiak said:
Wow, sounds like you need to take a step away from the keyboard and then take a good long hard look at yourself. From what you wrote in the OP, what the PM asked you was perfectly reasonable. If he shouted at you, telling you that you are usless streak of ****, then you could have a good vent.
Click to expand...

The OP doesn't really communicate the gollum-like loathsome quality that all PMs posses. Snivelling little creatures.
 
Basher said:
No, I expect developers to estimate how long the tasks will take and what could affect this timing. I don't want them to guess, I want them to estimate.

You seem to have little understanding of how projects actually work, lucking we have PM's to do this.
Click to expand...

Believe me, what I tell the PM is a best a judgement as I can make at the time. If you were a decent PM you'd understand that developers cannot give you a precise time, and only when they know a system well can they give accurate estimates.

Unfortuantely you're too engrossed in your time sheets to appreciate this fact.
 
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