Public Sector pay rise 2023

Although I have zero thoughts on the percentage points, I do agree that public organisations should be heavily incentivised to root out inefficiency. I appreciate the government know this is a thing people think, and are almost certainly using it as a bit of a cop out, but I don't really care too much about that, I'm just glad that public sector waste is continuing to be a talking point.
 
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Zefan said:
Although I have zero thoughts on the percentage points, I do agree that public organisations should be heavily incentivised to root out inefficiency. I appreciate the government know this is a thing people think, and are almost certainly using it as a bit of a cop out, but I don't really care too much about that, I'm just glad that public sector waste is continuing to be a talking point.
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Or it leads to more inefficiency.

Like not being able to hire (and retain) the people you need to run your services, and therefore being "forced" to bring in many, many contractors on £thousands per day.

From a local govt perspective, it's hard to find fat on a skeleton, and instead services get cut and contractors have a field day.
 
FoxEye said:
Or it leads to more inefficiency.

Like not being able to hire (and retain) the people you need to run your services, and therefore being "forced" to bring in many, many contractors on £thousands per day.

From a local govt perspective, it's hard to find fat on a skeleton, and instead services get cut and contractors have a field day.
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I know what you're saying but I don't think it's really true, at least not in all sectors. It's easy to demonise the contractors but are you truly sure they're much more expensive than a full time employee, once you take NHS benefits, employer overheads and short v long term expenditure in to account? You should make sure what you're saying is true before demonising private contractors, although I understand it's a tempting and easy thing to do, especially if you are on the public sector side of the fence and have anecdotal evidence of it.

I work for a strategic partner, providing services for another strategic partner, who in turn provide services to the public sector. I do this alongside a team of public sector staff, from which I came from, and I can tell you that - using your fat/skeleton analogy - the place is positively obese across the board. I've seen it from and continue to see it from all sides, and it's definitely absolutely not "public sector good, can't pay people enough, private bad".
 
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aspiring said:
Well clearly for some it still isn't enough. The rises today are fair.
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Based on what? Genuine question. You make very superficial remarks but haven't substantiated anything. Will they secure staff retention? Will we maintain adequate recruitment? Will public sector working remain competitive with the private sector?
 
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Minstadave said:
Based on what? Genuine question. You make very superficial remarks but haven't substantiated anything. Will they secure staff retention? Will we maintain adequate recruitment? Will public sector working remain competitive with the private sector?
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Those ques are standard questions that are asked every year though
 
ivrytwr3 said:
My senior role pay in the MOD is equivelant to a new joiner in the Private sector - so no. Although i am very appreciative of the rise, it isn't competitive.
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Are you taking the benefits available to you including housing and pension in to account? You may not take advantage of some of the benefits, but it doesn't mean they aren't part of your package.
 
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Zefan said:
I know what you're saying but I don't think it's really true, at least not in all sectors. It's easy to demonise the contractors but are you truly sure they're much more expensive than a full time employee, once you take NHS benefits, employer overheads and short v long term expenditure in to account? You should make sure what you're saying is true before demonising private contractors, although I understand it's a tempting and easy thing to do, especially if you are on the public sector side of the fence and have anecdotal evidence of it.

I work for a strategic partner, providing services for another strategic partner, who in turn provide services to the public sector. I do this alongside a team of public sector staff, from which I came from, and I can tell you that - using your fat/skeleton analogy - the place is positively obese across the board. I've seen it from and continue to see it from all sides, and it's definitely absolutely not "public sector good, can't pay people enough, private bad".
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I can only speak for my sector but a grand a day was the going rate for contractors. Or put another way, 10x the rate of the FTE.

e: I should also say it's possible to flip what you're saying, and say that it's all too easy to demonise the FTEs, if you have anecdotal evidence of them being lazy and useless :p We've had good contractors who were true pros, and we've had useless contractors who didn't have a clue. None were cheap :p The cheapest were 4-5x the cost of the FTE, tho.
 
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FoxEye said:
I can only speak for my sector but a grand a day was the going rate for contractors. Or put another way, 10x the rate of the FTE.

e: I should also say it's really easy to flip that, and say that it's really easy to demonise the FTEs, if you have anecdotal evidence of them being lazy and useless :p
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Fair enough, that sounds very mental and I expect that is absolutely not the norm.

Of course it's easy to flip it, but I didn't say that, I said it exists on all sides. From my experience they're not particularly lazy and useless, but when they are they are protected from consequences due to the nature of their employment vs private sector individuals, especially contractors who can be yeeted within days with zero financial impact on the business.
 
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This is going to be funded by efficiencies - so cuts in services, that's not good... We need better/more money in services, not less...

They found money to pay their friends but they can't find money to fund key workers. Absolute joke.
 
aspiring said:
Well clearly for some it still isn't enough. The rises today are fair.
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I'm at a private multi-billion dollar firm, with an excellent review where last year I got 10% + 10% bonus... And this year with a near identical review got less than 5% and just shy of I think 7% bonus.

I think these public sector folk did pretty darn well to be honest. Yes, inflation is sucking hard for sure, so don't think I am saying it is fair, only comparable. For many years, a lot of my gov buddies were on pay freezes which sucked big time for them.
 
Zefan said:
Fair enough, that sounds very mental and I expect that is absolutely not the norm.

Of course it's easy to flip it, but I didn't say that, I said it exists on all sides. From my experience they're not particularly lazy and useless, but when they are they are protected from consequences due to the nature of their employment vs private sector individuals, especially contractors who can be yeeted within days with zero financial impact on the business.
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Well put it this way, the older contractors could work 3-4 months and then spend the rest of the year on a beach, somewhere. They were absolutely earning more in that time than a FTE in a year.

Some of this is due to the insane way finances are put into "pots". They might not have money for another FTE but the contractor salaries were taken from a different "pot", so it wasn't an issue to be spending a lot more on contractors than a FTE would cost for the year.

I could try my hand at it, but I happen to like working for the public sector. The pay is low compared to private, and the benefits are grossly exaggerated, these days. We get what every employee must legally have, sick pay and holiday pay, and that's it. There really is no other benefit. No final salary pensions or anything like that.
 
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