Gah. I sold my soul for the promise of flat panel loveliness and even though it was expensive and fast, it wasn't my CRT. Wish I had kept mine. It was fugly but sooo good.
I hated the fishbowl of CRTs.
Mmm, DM6.
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I hated the fishbowl of CRTs.
Mmm, DM6.
Makes me want to play again - could never play at that level though I'm far too much a reactive player - things like dodging rockets before they've even been fired or cognisance to hold on the RA instead of picking it up so as being able to run out armour tank before picking it up and not wasting it if the fight happens there are beyond my abilities heh.
The allstars guy got spanked though heh - funny enough most of them only did well before the introduction of punkbuster...
Oh, I had forgotten about punkbuster. Quake was fun when I was 19 - 23. I don't think I could get into it again. I wasn't fast enough back then, I'm definitely not fast enough now as they seemed to spend all their time gaming?
I loved serious gaming but not enough for it to dominate. For some reason now since 2010, I love military type games, team games, mission games, objectives, roles and rpg/stealth games with a little bit of gung ho. That and sci-fi/story telling.
I don't think I could get into Quake again just for shooting. I think that was why I loved Q3F and Enemy Territory for working together.
What concept is dated?Quake has always been accessible to every level of player because fundamentally it is quite a simple game - get a gun and shoot anything that moves!
It's a shame the esports scene tends to focus on duels rather than CTF or TDM, though. By simple logic it would get more people involved at semi-pro / pro level if you had teams rather than a few individuals which has made the esposts scene for Quake quite niche. Having said that, the skill meta seems to be phenomenal with modern players compared to what I remember back in the Q3 days so I can't knock it in that regard.
But unfortunately, yes, gamers these days are conditioned into believing they should be able to pick up a game and do well from the get go. Quake, whilst accessible, has always been an open game not limited by levelled lobbies. You get better or die lots. Like you, I fear the current generation of gamers won't be able to cope without levelled lobbies and matchmaking which is something I think a proper Quake game should never have.
It seems like QC will be a PC only release and whilst that may be a good thing in some regards, it reduces player base dramatically. Perhaps as gaming has become more acessible in general, a side effect has been that it has become more casual. Is there an appetite for serious esports games amongst the average gamer, or do they want pick up and enjoy titles to while away a couple of hours on the sofa? It seems to me people are more interested in watching esports than training to play in them?
A full fat version of a Quake online MP is always going to be a hard sell to the console audience - no campaign, controller issue and game pace + console game price tag. But I can't see it ever taking it off without support from the console market. The recent trend of console player base overtaking the PC is quite telling.
Also, Overwatch has been really well received by the console market and is nearer Q3 in spirit as an arena shooter than anything esle out there. Blizzard seem to be doing a fine job of encouraging and supporting the console user base which remains quite healthy. Compared to Valve's efforts with CS:GO which basically boiled down to them not wanting to invest in the console player base, Blizzard are showing what can be done and that an arena shooter can work on console. So perhaps there is hope for QC yet? If it stays purely PC it will be up against Overwatch, Battlefield and CS:GO and a limited player base so will have to be something truly spectacular, pushing both technological and gameplay boundaries or it will likely fizzle out.
If you look at the division in player base in BF1, consoles are way ahead of the PC with PS4 being the most popular system by far. BF4 was also extremely popular on console and had (and still does) a massive player base. I think it overtook the PC back in 2014. CoD has been more popular on console for years.
Console games have some key benefits. Generally stable, quick to get into, no hacking (other than XIM users), no hardware differences giving tangible benefits or hinderances and all easy to play on the sofa with a cold beer!
I know for a lot of PC gamers having a multiplayer game on console as well as PC will be seen as a limiting factor but can any development studio really afford not to these days? With the right support and regular updates and content there is no reason why a full fat MP FPS game can't do well, be inclusive of the console audience and still cater for elite tier players and esports.
I have my own feelings on skill ceilings and development limitations on PC vs console, but I cannot escape the fact that including the console market is essential for any modern game (not withstanding niche indies).
I can't help thinking QC is trying to run up a slippery slope and is trying to sell a dated concept to a very limited audience. Dare I say it, the days of a Quake game being massive in the esports scene seem long past. In that regard, Counterstrike won the fight! It seems a risky strategy and QC is going to have to be groundbreaking to work so I am not that hopeful.
But I will be genuinely happy to be proven wrong
The reason why Quake failed is not the concept or any "groundbreaking" elements it had or was lacking. It failed because it heavily relied on players being skillful and if they were skillful learning the mechanics of the game. You touched on this quite well and I agree on most of your points. Controlling resources, timing, movement and tricking the enemy is the core of any Quake game - hell it was the first to do so I believe to a good level. What would generally happen is a new player would join, they would get absolutely smashed or booted off the server for not being good enough. That elitism is what kills the game so I can see what they are doing with QC with trying to remove that.
I am a old school Quaker - played "professionally", many clanbase Eurocups, tournaments during the Quake 3 era and I saw the above near the end really cause problems for the scene.
Soldato
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Quake as a concept is dated. The format of the quake arena shooter has been around for 20 years. Sure they can add a few bells and whistles graphically but if they change the core format too much it will alienate their fanbase. For example FFA in quake isnt really any different to FFA in Q3 or Q4. The core gameplay has not changed in 20 years. New ideas are always good but eventually it will stop being a quake game if they change too much. So your quake fans wont buy it. The rest of the potential player base wont buy it of it doesent stand apart from other more generic online shooters. When you slash your potential sales by being PC only it is going to be a struggle for id. They are in catch 22 really, particularly as QL still enjoys a lot of success. People will ask how is QC relevant? Why should I migrate from QL? Id are going to need a better answer than "bcuz class system!!" lol.
I really want QC to be awesome because it is probably the only franchise that would bring me back to PC gaming other tham a new/improved Tribes game. At this stage I'm just not sure its going to be that good. Im probably still going to buy it but I just dont want it to be mediocre
Hopes have been dashed too many times, I guess Im just a bit jaded.
You've just triggered a memory bank. L@@k at this n0000000000b!1
n0000000000000000000000000000b!1111111111 in fruity text being spammed on a server. pwn3d!11
I remember seeing players kick banned with n000b at the end for the reason. Even if they were only on for 5 minutes.
Soldato
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That is not something particular to q3 though. That is an unfortunate side effect of player rented servers with silly admin policies / idiot admins. It's still the same now in games like battlefield. Or perhaps TF2. If anyone tried playing TF2 over recent years and actually did any good on one of these servers they would likely be kicked for hacking or some BS just because one of the admin gets spanked and cries.
I hate lobby systems with a passion, but this is one key area that they are better than player rented dedis.
That said, in my q3 life I just found the servers that were not full of idiots and played there. Gifford.co.uk was a great place to play and really supportive of new players. I have great memories of the entirte server stopping play to show new guys how to do tricks like RJ or help with console commands and suchlike, or how to 'bunny' jump (thats what we called it back then). Maybe I just got lucky? Back when I was leading clans and adminning clan servers I wouldn't allow elitist behaviour.
I don't know, perhaps mass saturation of social media has just made people more adverserial in general. I notice FB is very similar these days. A lot of people just seem to be unable to be happy for other people or in many instances even extend them basic courtesy. Perhaps it is a simply case of immature kids being given access to social platforms they are not ready for and there is nobody there to oversee their activities so they grow up thinking it is OK. Really don't know but it is a trend I see accross all kinds of things, modern online games included. CoD is terrible if you don't mute every other player. CS:GO isn't much better and in terms of elitist players its one of the worst games I have ever come across. Even my beloved Tribes Ascend has elements of elitism, but I must say overall it was a supportive community that helped me a great deal when I started out.
I suppose my point is that all these other games still exist and do well with this exact kind of elitist behaviour from players. Even Q3 lived a healthy online life until around 2006 ish, and limped on till at least 2012 if you knew where to go (or you could play QL).
So why so certain it is elitism that killed Quake?
My view is that it died because you had to be good. It didn't hold your hand and players struggle with that these days. They need training missions or tutorials and tons of accolades and achievements. They need levels and prestige, they need KD and stats on every minutiae of their performance. Games that massage the sensibilities of players get an audience.
Quake never did, it was basic and raw. You had no levels or KD ratio to look at to see how experienced or good a player was. You turned up and you played then left when you had enough. The only progression was personal, you judged your own progress and strived to better yourself. You didnt have a constant stream of rewards to reassure you that you were doing OK.
Yeah there were plenty of servers that didn't have dick admins, etc. there were a number of communities that ran their own servers with friendly people and didn't discriminate against lower skilled players - some often ran one vanilla/osp q3 deathmatch server and then a second with a fun mod that required less skill.
I don't think anything killed quake its just more and more games diversified more what people were playing, many many people still came back to quake games time after time and are still playing today.
For those too busy/lazy/other to read the beta news thingy the next open beta is April 27th 10am ET which is like 3pm UK time through to 4pm on the 30th (9pm UK time).
I don't think anything killed quake its just more and more games diversified more what people were playing, many many people still came back to quake games time after time and are still playing today.
For those too busy/lazy/other to read the beta news thingy the next open beta is April 27th 10am ET which is like 3pm UK time through to 4pm on the 30th (9pm UK time).
Soldato
Does that mean everyone who got in on it last week can play again? Literally dying to play since Sunday! Only got a few hours in!
Soldato
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Hoping I get a key for 2nd round. Havent had one yet 
Soldato
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I liked RA3 and other similar mods because it overcame the inherent resource unfairness of FFA and levelled the playing field in terms of weapons and armour. Also made your input more relevant due to no respawn.
The one downside I noiced was it became the dawn of hold back / campy gameplay and in RA3 it wasn't so bad because it was simply a case of eliminate the enemy team, but in flag orientated 3wave capturestrike it was a campy spam fest particularly with how points and damage (later skill) were awarded per player and how points were awarded to the team. I wanted them to change it with an update to completely remove player point scoring and only offer an overall team score, but alas it never happened so you always had players wanting to look awesome with their stats, even though they contributed very little to the teamplay. I wanted to see team damage too, but it also never happened!
"FFS +Forward!" and "your attacking the wrong flag" became comments in nearly every game after a while, unfortunately (except clan matches).
The one downside I noiced was it became the dawn of hold back / campy gameplay and in RA3 it wasn't so bad because it was simply a case of eliminate the enemy team, but in flag orientated 3wave capturestrike it was a campy spam fest particularly with how points and damage (later skill) were awarded per player and how points were awarded to the team. I wanted them to change it with an update to completely remove player point scoring and only offer an overall team score, but alas it never happened so you always had players wanting to look awesome with their stats, even though they contributed very little to the teamplay. I wanted to see team damage too, but it also never happened!
"FFS +Forward!" and "your attacking the wrong flag" became comments in nearly every game after a while, unfortunately (except clan matches).
Soldato
I loved a bit of RA3
Soldato
Got a key last night however I won't be able to play.
First dibs takes it!
First dibs takes it!
