Racism, football and politics . . .

[chroniclard]

Yes, he may have been doing the Monkey thing. But he may just indeed have been hopping from foot to foot because he is exited or cold. I have just tried it myself (In the privacy of my own home with the curtains drawn and the lights out, just in case somebody passing by might be offended by my movements) And yes, his movements are entirely consistent with just being cold or exited.

You raised both your arms in a monkey like gesture and pursed your lips in an "oooo" way while pretending to be cold did you?

Dont forget you also have to be pretending to be raging at footballers whilst pretending to be cold.

Utter guff.

 

[dowie]

Making what look like monkey noises and gestures? No, never. Its a ridiculous statement.

Here is a stock photo of "young man breathing out cold air"... ZOMG he's making a racist monkey impression...



Another thing people do when cold is jiggle about, especially if otherwise stationary for a period of time.

So while the fan might have been racist it is also quite plausible he was, as claimed, cold.

For some short time period he jumped about a bit and puffed a little and that brief snippet of time was caught on film... the idea of someone being convicted or even going to court for that in the first place seems rather silly.

There is way too much doubt there to publicly call someone out as racist, put their job in jeopardy and have them facing potential charges.

 

[McGray]

Embarrassing.

 

[Orionaut]

You raised both your arms in a monkey like gesture and pursed your lips in an "oooo" way while pretending to be cold did you?

Dont forget you also have to be pretending to be raging at footballers whilst pretending to be cold.

Utter guff.

No,

I jumped from foot to foot, while holding my arms loosely (So they flapped about a bit) and blew out through my mouth, as people frequently do when they are cold or exited

Question, If you saw a Black person making exactly the same movements, would you assume that he was doing the monkey thing?

 

[chroniclard]

No,

I jumped from foot to foot, while holding my arms loosely (So they flapped about a bit) and blew out through my mouth, as people frequently do when they are cold or exited

Question, If you saw a Black person making exactly the same movements, would you assume that he was doing the monkey thing?

Never seen anyone do those specific movements and mouth shape when cold.

People are entirely dismissing the context of when the guy did these things. He was raging at footballers, not standing around being cold.

Also the weather says it was around 9-10 degrees, he has multiple layers on, is agitated, hes not cold.

 

[Orionaut]

Never seen anyone do those specific movements and mouth shape when cold.

People are entirely dismissing the context of when the guy did these things. He was raging at footballers, not standing around being cold.

Also the weather says it was around 9-10 degrees, he has multiple layers on, is agitated, hes not cold.

Remember I did say exited too.

You are seeing what you want to see based on your own prejudices.

What is quite possibly a totally innocent gesture is being interpreted as being a deliberate attempt at being racially offensive simply because the accused is white, watching a football match, at which Black players are playing.

Ask yourself this.

Is every Black man who uses an Index finger point making a death threat??

 

[NVP]

You do understand the criminal burden of proof dont you?

All i have said is that, based on the video posted in this thread alone, i think their would be reasonable doubt for the purposes of a criminal case.

Why is it so hard to tell me why you see reasonable doubt in his racist actions?

 

[dowie]

Never seen anyone do those specific movements and mouth shape when cold.

Yes you have, I literally just posted a photo of someone doing that mouth shape when cold.

 

[NVP]

Only he knows for certain what he was doing and why and nothing (In the absence of any corroborating evidence) can be proven otherwise

He said he was putting his hands in his pockets or something ridiculous.

 

[dowie]

Why is it so hard to tell me why you see reasonable doubt in his racist actions?

Its quite easy to tell you - because you don't know anything about his intent or have any audio... you don't know if he was, as he claimed, jumping about and puffing while cold. It is a brief clip from a football match, he does the actions very briefly and they're not clearly one or the other.

The more clear cut examples of this have people actually beating their chests or raising their hands up below their arms as per these:





That doesn't happen in this instance, it is ambiguous and therefore there is plenty of doubt.

 

[Orionaut]

He said he was putting his hands in his pockets or something ridiculous.

Of course, if he was totally innocent, he wouldn't remember what he was doing or why, so any explanation (Especially under pressure) would appear unconvincing. Only Guilty people have firm and detailed memories of events and rock solid alibis!

 

[Yadda]

They're not making monkey gestures - they just have itchy armpits.

 

[chroniclard]

Yes you have, I literally just posted a photo of someone doing that mouth shape when cold.

lol you did not. You posted a picture of someone breathing out. Thats not someone being cold its a pose. Nobody does that in real life when cold.

It looks far more like a racist gesture/noises than some feeble being cold deflection.

 

[chroniclard]

Remember I did say exited too.

You are seeing what you want to see based on your own prejudices.

What is quite possibly a totally innocent gesture is being interpreted as being a deliberate attempt at being racially offensive simply because the accused is white, watching a football match, at which Black players are playing.

Ask yourself this.

Is every Black man who uses an Index finger point making a death threat??

This is feeble guff. Given the circumstances its highly probable its a racist gesture.

 

[dowie]

lol you did not. You posted a picture of someone breathing out. Thats not someone being cold its a pose. Nobody does that in real life when cold.

Eh? That's literally what he's posing that way for the stock photo - because that is exactly what some people do when it is cold outside.

here you go, guy going to take a cold dip, takes his top off, starts puffing etc... just what some people do when cold. Skip to 30 seconds in... now you can't say you've never seen someone do that in the cold.

 

[Roar87]

I think he may or may not have been making racist gestures, there isn't enough evidence in that short video clip though to conclusively prove he was. With your own prejudice of disliking football fans, racists, and knowing he doesn't like the player you may think otherwise, but that doesn't make it true.

 

[Efour]

Just because you were born into a working class family, it doesn't mean you can make sweeping generalisations that are every bit as bigoted as the people you're purporting to be against.

Middle class and upper class people are just as racist, I've seen it first hand, they're just far more subtle about it. They'll be racist when it comes to hiring people, yet the reason for not hiring them will be very plausible so no one will question it. They'll be openly racist amongst their close group of friends, but outwardly they'd never say anything because they have a reputation/career to think of. Working class people are less educated you're right, but that just means they don't have the intelligence to be subtle about it, they'll go to a football match and call a black player a monkey, where as the middle class bloke will be at home having a beer in the privacy of his living room saying the same thing to his mate.

So exactly what I said? Lol what a waste of letters.

 

[Orionaut]

This is feeble guff. Given the circumstances its highly probable its a racist gesture.

Again, maybe it was maybe it wasn't. The point is that it is unprovable either way.

Are you happy to have a legal system that can declare somebody guilty of a crime simply because somebody, somewhere, subjectively, thinks they are?

Are you really happy having guilt or innocense essentially being decided by a modern interpretationm of a Bill of Attainder backed up by a hysterical media campaign?

Yes/No??

 

[chroniclard]

Again, maybe it was maybe it wasn't. The point is that it is unprovable either way.

Are you happy to have a legal system that can declare somebody guilty of a crime simply because somebody, somewhere, subjectively, thinks they are?

Are you really happy having guilt or innocense essentially being decided by a modern interpretationm of a Bill of Attainder backed up by a hysterical media campaign?

Yes/No??

Not mentioned anything about legality or the legal system. Answer is "no".
Just chuckling at the feeble "cold" line is all. Guy is there on the video spouting abuse at the players. People are claiming in the middle of his ranting he took time out to be cold..........honestly.......

 

[chroniclard]

Eh? That's literally what he's posing that way for the stock photo - because that is exactly what some people do when it is cold outside.

here you go, guy going to take a cold dip, takes his top off, starts puffing etc... just what some people do when cold. Skip to 30 seconds in... now you can't say you've never seen someone do that in the cold.

Perhaps, but they dont do that in the middle of a massive ranting session at some footballers. Feeble arguments are feeble.