Ramadan Mubarak

[Hatter The Mad]

As usual any Islamic/Muslim related threads get derailed.

As usual, the 'My Religion' or 'race' card gets tabled. I am equally disdainful of Christianity.

 

[RDM]

As usual any Islamic/Muslim related threads get derailed.

I would say that any religion thread will get derailed. Let's be honest a few of the muslim posters aren't exactly helping themselves in the "tolerance and understanding" stakes either.

 

[Vita]

I would say that any religion thread will get derailed. Let's be honest a few of the muslim posters aren't exactly helping themselves in the "tolerance and understanding" stakes either.

Agree.

 

[e36Adz]

I would say that any religion thread will get derailed. Let's be honest a few of the muslim posters aren't exactly helping themselves in the "tolerance and understanding" stakes either.

I agree. Surely a first?

 

[Random Guy]

Sorry to interrupt your self righteous rant but wouldn't it be better to actually do something about said poor rather than just remember them? Believe what you like but drop the high and might attitude please.

Believe me, as soon as you begin to have that inkling of how a poor/starving person feels as a result of your fasting - even if this is not 1% of the horrible suffering that is being experienced in reality by them - you will immediately DO something about said poor.

This is because Fasting heightens your awareness of the plight of people in poverty.

 

[crinkleshoes]

The sad thing I find (in general not specifically you) is that people seem to blame religion for half the world's ills whilst ignoring that it's not religion that causes the issues, it's basic human nature. If religion didn't exist then the world wouldn't be a better place because the acts done in religion's name would instead be done for land, money, and plain old fashioned power to name a few. Religion has always been a way to moralise wrongdoing, and half the time it was to cover up the underlying nature of greed.

Ummmmm... you seem to think we are offering different points here?

This is EXACTLY what I have been saying all a long... the difference between 'religion' and 'organised religion'.

Religion in itself is not a bad thing... probably good for the types who have no hope / need something to believe in / fear of death / helping to fill the void of where we come from / why do we exist... etc etc

My personal opinion, which I clearly like to share, is it's complete ********... but I don't go round knocking on peoples' doors to share my views... I contribute to the conversation when it's brought up by others as I'm more than aware most people do not share my views. I did not start a thread with the title "haha, look how stupid religion is" or similar...

It's when it becomes controlled/organised when it really becomes an issue.

Yes, if religion did not exist then the likes of 9/11 would likely still have occured under a different guise. It may not have been quite so simple to convince the poor suicide bombers to do it without the promise of 47 virgins on 'the other side'. However, I'm sure someone could have found a way to convince a handful of people... this is not what I've been commenting on as I'd assumed it was common sense.

(I say poor not because I find what they did to be acceptable in any way, shape or form... but because they will have been manipulated in to doing it).

All religions have been and will continue to be manipulated by people.

This manipulation is passed down to to the people who follow it and don't know any better.

This causes a lot of bad things to happen, which, if people had not been a member of that organised religion... would never have been an issue.

That is the fundamental reason why organised religion is a bad thing. Sure it's more complicated than that... but I'm not writing an essay!

And to cover your points, you are behaving in the same exact manner as those who try to force organised religion down others. If you wanted honest and open you wouldn't resort to belittling or name calling. So yes, I would say what you are doing is negative, not because of what you are doing but the way you are doing it.

I'm really not, but if you chose to view what I've been saying in that way, then that's up to you...

I can't see the comparison... I share my views when prompted by a relevant discussion... I do not go round in public 'preaching' atheism/agnosticism... I do not beg for tax-free money to support my views... I do not scare people in to donation and sacrifice... I do not offer false-hope... I do not prey on peoples fears and ignorance...

... I could continue, but I think I've made my point

 

[RDM]

Believe me, as soon as you begin to have that inkling of how a poor/starving person feels as a result of your fasting - even if this is not 1% of the horrible suffering that is being experienced in reality by them - you will immediately DO something about said poor.

The evidence being the amount of work that Islamic nations do to alleviate poverty? Oh, that's right, they don't, not even in their own nations. Or how much evidence Sho was able to produce about how much his experiences during Ramadan have impacted his life in aiding the poor? Again, it seems that he would rather do nothing as you can never do enough.

Sorry Random Guy, in this case it seems very much like self righteous preaching rather than anything noble at all.

This is because Fasting heightens your awareness of the plight of people in poverty.

It is a shame that in reality it doesn't seem to spur all that many in to action.

 

[RDM]

I agree. Surely a first?

I am pretty sure that as far as religion goes we agree about almost every God out there other than Allah...

 

[Muzy]

Believe me, as soon as you begin to have that inkling of how a poor/starving person feels as a result of your fasting - even if this is not 1% of the horrible suffering that is being experienced in reality by them - you will immediately DO something about said poor.

This is because Fasting heightens your awareness of the plight of people in poverty.

+, scientifically proven - fasting have multiple benfits to the health system.

Fasting promotes detoxification. As the body breaks down its fat reserves, it mobilizes and eliminates stored toxins.
Fasting gives the digestive system a much-needed rest. After fasting, both digestion and elimination are invigorated.
Fasting promotes the resolution of inflammatory processes, such as in rheumatoid arthritis.
Fasting quiets allergic reactions, including asthma and hay fever.
Fasting promotes the drying up of abnormal fluid accumulations, such as edema in the ankles and legs and swelling in the abdomen.
Fasting corrects high blood pressure without drugs. Fasting will normalize blood pressure in the vast majority of cases, the blood pressure will remain low after the fast, if the person follows a health-supporting diet and lifestyle.
Fasting makes it easy to overcome bad habits and addictions. Many people have overcome tobacco and alcohol addictions by fasting, and even drug addictions. Fasting rapidly dissipates the craving for nicotine, alcohol, caffeine and other drugs.
Fasting clears the skin and whitens the eyes. It is common to see skin eruptions clear while fasting, and the whites of the eyes never look so clear and bright as they do after fasting.
Fasting restores taste appreciation for wholesome natural foods. People say that their taste buds come alive after fasting and that food never tasted so good.
Fasting is the perfect gateway to a healthful diet and lifestyle. Going on a fast gives you the motivation and enthusiasm to make a fresh start.
Fasting initiates rapid weight loss with little or no hunger. Most people are surprised at how little desire for food they have while fasting.

 

[RDM]

+, scientifically proven - fasting have multiple benfits to the health system.

Can we have some links to that, because an awful lot of it seems to be generalised rubbish? Much like the "List of 10 things the bible got right about science" and so on? Basically people making stuff up to try and give their religious observances some validation?

 

[Robbo]

I would say that any religion thread will get derailed. Let's be honest a few of the muslim posters aren't exactly helping themselves in the "tolerance and understanding" stakes either.

Indeed. It follows along the lines of that guy in London with the sign saying "Islam is a peaceful religion and we'll kill anyone that says otherwise".

It is often fitting, if a little over the top in many cases.

My opinion on fasting is that it's just another religious farce.

 

[Muzy]

Can we have some links to that, because an awful lot of it seems to be generalised rubbish? Much like the "List of 10 things the bible got right about science" and so on? Basically people making stuff up to try and give their religious observances some validation?

type in the address bar www.google.com
in the text field under the google logo type: health benfit of fasting

then click on the search button

 

[RDM]

type in the address bar www.google.com
in the text field under the google logo type: health benfit of fasting

then click on the search button

Ah, so when you said "scientific evidence" you actually meant "read it on some website".

Having done just the above what I have come up with is the usual nutrionist websites that peddle health foods and the like using semi scientific terms to fool the gullible.

 

[crinkleshoes]

This is just a wild observation plucked out of thin air. You don't know that and we cannot know that until religion is irradiated.

Almost all major ills in the world are down to religion, whether that is the Israel situation, the Ireland situation, September 11th, the proliferation of Aids in Africa, the systematic abuse of children in the Catholic church, the mutilation and murder of humans in middle-eastern countries, honour killings, the oppression of women in most Islamic countries, the refusal of the Catholic church to back off on the anti-family-planning agenda in Africa (which perpetuates its poverty).

We will have ills without religion, no on argues otherwise. However, one more justification removed - and the worse kind of justification. A religious man believes without a doubt he has not just the answers, but the right ones - God gave it to him. A religious man believes he can go over basic human civilisation and morality to murder and oppress, all in the name of this imaginary figure.

It's weird, it is twisted, it isn't rational and it is bent on all accounts.

That's very much a grey area and one I've been avoiding in this discussion on purpose... because I'm not even sure where I stand on it.

First thing... we will never have the answer to this as it's a hypothetical that will likely never be demonstrated (or if it is, it will be a very distant thing when the imaginary friend hypothesis is disproven... if it even is/can be).

Yes... religion gives justification for some horrific acts to those who need it / can manipulate it in such a way (clarification was required for "people" like Milkybk )

The real question is: is it just justification or a reason to do it in the first place?

I've thought long and hard about this and had many a discussion with intelligent people on the matter... including a very intelligent bishop who turned out to be one of the few religious figures I respect.

The best I could get it down to is... I think some of the global atrocities would be reduced by abolishing religion.

However, not by much... the generic violence and abuse that's seen constantly is inherent to human nature. People will always take advantage of those less fortunate.

It's human nature that would have to change...

 

[Robbo]

If it's written on the internet it must be true. Much like if it's written in an old book it must be true i.e. the basis of most religions.

Religions are very much psychological.

It is simply an old book of 'how you should live your life' that could have been written by anyone. They invented the fact that a higher power sent the messages down as a way to fool people that there was a 'God' back in the old days.

The likelihood of it is extremely slim. It is very much like brainwashing to an extent, children often live as their parents raise them (and believe what their parents tell them), so if they hammer the fact there is a God into them, they'll believe it.

 

[Muzy]

If it's written on the internet it must be true. Much like if it's written in an old book it must be true i.e. the basis of most religions.

Well ask you local or private Doctor (the one you trust) if you don't believe in health sites or articles written by Doctors with PHDs and over decades of research and experience.

 

[crinkleshoes]

One of the main reason of Fasting during the month of Ramadan:

" Is to remember the Poor "

Poor people cant go out and buy a whole supermarket now can they? A begger on a sreet who has no shelter. Is begging for money cant go out and buy food or water now can they?

Third world countrys like Africa...Most of them are poor people.
How about you try being their boots and come bak to me how it feels to be starving all day no food for weeks. Walking miles for water. Drinking Bad water etc.

So when we do we are remembering that, Be happy what you have and not to take grantage of it.

You missed my next post...

If that really was how it was perceived by the majority of the people going through it... then it would make more sense.

Unfortunately for me... as you can see on the left of this post, I live in a place with a very high muslim community and have a few friends who observe the religion (and yes, most of them are aware of my views)... all they care about is when the sun's going to set so they can stuff their face.

For the most-part, from what I have been in contact with... there is no contemplation of what others are going through... just what the individual is going through at the time... the very essence of human selfishness.

Sorry to interrupt your self righteous rant but wouldn't it be better to actually do something about said poor rather than just remember them? Believe what you like but drop the high and might attitude please.

EXACTLY!

There are much much much better ways to honour/remember the poor.

For example... following a similar idea to how ramadan is practiced.

All those meals that are missed throughout the day... instead of skipping them, donate the equivalent amount of money to a charity or homeless guy on the street etc...

That way you're not abusing your own body & you're actively helping someone instead of just supposedly thinking about them.

Thinking about them does nothing to help them. I'm thinking about them now, but that doesn't help a single one of them even the tiniest bit!

Because religion deserves to be bashed. Gay people don't.

Essentially, all religions cause severe problems in the world (but it seems the 'biggest offenders' are the Abrahamic ones). They collectively murder and maim millions of people whether directly or indirectly, enslave civilisations and enslave intellect. Those who claim to be 'religious moderates' are merely subscribing to the same following and in fact giving legitimacy to the more extremes just in sheer number fodder.

I wish everything could be blamed on religion like that... but it really can't.

And it's not inherent to those religions either... there are almost as many 'christian' issues like that...

 

[Le_Petit_Lapin]

Why cant people just let others get on with their own thing?

Good luck to those participating, I can't imagine its fun with the long days.