Raptor Lake refresh for sure ?

Bencher · 19 Apr 2023 at 14:34

ChocAndGray said:
Undervolted with a power limit at 150 pl1/2 in games, the power consumption is great I find.

The 13900k/ks is very power efficient at lower power limits and scales nicely. 150w is enough for pretty much any task with great performance.

I agree that overclocking has minimal gains in gaming though. I’m capped at 120fps due to my display and in most games at 4k I don’t notice a difference.

It is pretty efficient in productivity workloads, despite popular belief, I know that. But gaming is a light load, and for those you are not supposed to power limit or drop clockspeeds. Games are the reason Intel pushes those clockspeeds high, cause they are not supposed to be that demanding. But with the 13900k they just pushed it too far even for gaming.

For multithreaded workloads yeah, most reviews test power unlimited and then claim that the 13900k consumes 350w for blender, as if any professional on their right mind would run hours long workloads at those wattages, lol. The 7950x is still more efficient for heavy MultiThreading, but the difference is 10-15% on average. For my type of workloads intel is way way more efficient, zen cpus consume 5 to 10 times more watts so it's a definite no go for me until they can fix that

MartinPrince · 19 Apr 2023 at 15:59

Bencher said:
While consuming a megawatt. I mean come on, I had the 13900k, there is no scenario where you ever overclock that thing for games. It draws too much power even stock, even undervolted, for gaming. Oced to 5.8ghz it was hitting 240 watts running cyberpunk, LOL

Interesting as I have a 13700K overclocked to 6.2Ghz turbo boost and playing Cyberpunk I'm using on average about ~120W and max of ~145W which is incidentally slightly less than my overclocked 9700K which it replaced.

Bencher · 19 Apr 2023 at 16:20

MartinPrince said:
Interesting as I have a 13700K overclocked to 6.2Ghz turbo boost and playing Cyberpunk I'm using on average about ~120W and max of ~145W which is incidentally slightly less than my overclocked 9700K which it replaced.

At what fps? I find that hard to believe, you are probably gpu bottlenecked.. This is a 13900k, are you getting similar fps at 120 watts?

Cyberpunk 2077 2023 01 24 18 09 36 04

youtu.be

MartinPrince · 19 Apr 2023 at 16:54

Bencher said:
At what fps? I find that hard to believe, you are probably gpu bottlenecked.. This is a 13900k, are you getting similar fps at 120 watts?

Cyberpunk 2077 2023 01 24 18 09 36 04

youtu.be

What GPU?

Bencher · 19 Apr 2023 at 16:55

MartinPrince said:
What GPU?

4090

MartinPrince · 19 Apr 2023 at 17:37

Bencher said:
4090

Well as I'm using a 3090 I'm not going to get near what you have, I'm pushing around 120fps with the settings I have.

My PCores are pretty much maxed out though plus I have HT disabled.

Jay-G25 · 19 Apr 2023 at 17:58

Bencher said:
While consuming a megawatt. I mean come on, I had the 13900k, there is no scenario where you ever overclock that thing for games. It draws too much power even stock, even undervolted, for gaming. Oced to 5.8ghz it was hitting 240 watts running cyberpunk, LOL

That does seem on the high side for sure , i don't have cyberpunk but can see the power draw on Bang for bucks video below and this is a worse case scenario as he is running at 1080p which will be putting as much load as possible on the cpu , he has a 6.0/4.6 OC afaik.

Bencher · 19 Apr 2023 at 18:18

Jay-G25 said:
That does seem on the high side for sure , i don't have cyberpunk but can see the power draw on Bang for bucks video below and this is a worse case scenario as he is running at 1080p which will be putting as much load as possible on the cpu , he has a 6.0/4.6 OC afaik.

The built in benchmark is super light on the CPU and of course he is running medium settings. Turn on RT and it becomes a CPU hog

Jay-G25 · 19 Apr 2023 at 18:28

Bencher said:
The built in benchmark is super light on the CPU and of course he is running medium settings. Turn on RT and it becomes a CPU hog

The guy loves this game and his channel is plastered with CP videos but here is another with RT on vs off and its actually using a lot less with RT off as the FPS shoots up , the GPU takes a 100w jump with RT on but CPU is chilling not doing much at 65w - 100w :cry:

MartinPrince · 19 Apr 2023 at 20:47

@Bencher well as you said you find it hard to believe I suppose seeing will be believing.

So maybe you should have gone with a 13700K instead of the 13900K.

Bencher · 19 Apr 2023 at 21:20

MartinPrince said:
@Bencher well as you said you find it hard to believe I suppose seeing will be believing. So maybe you should have gone with a 13700K instead of the 13900K.

Your framerate is low man, not really a valid comparison. My 12900k consumes 90w at fully cpu bound settings so, I'm good where I am

MartinPrince · 19 Apr 2023 at 21:42

Bencher said:
Your framerate is low man, not really a valid comparison. My 12900k consumes 90w at fully cpu bound settings so, I'm good where I am

That's a bit of silly thing to say when you're running a 4090 and I'm running a 3090, plus you have no idea of what settings I'm using and when you can clearly see that my P-cores are nearly fully maxed out.

Of course it is a valid comparison and more to the point you said you didn't find it believable. Well you were wrong.

The inquiry is why were you wrong? Maybe you didn't realise that the 13700K uses much less power than the 13900K? Maybe you lost the silicon lottery with your 13900K and it was using a lot more power for stock clocks than others? Maybe those 8 extra E-cores suck down additional power though not contributing to the gaming experience massively? etc.

At least now you know that even in gaming, Raptor Lake doesn't need to be the gaming power hog that your singular experience has led you to believe.

Bencher · 19 Apr 2023 at 22:39

MartinPrince said:
That's a bit of silly thing to say when you're running a 4090 and I'm running a 3090, plus you have no idea of what settings I'm using and when you can clearly see that my P-cores are nearly fully maxed out.

Of course it is a valid comparison and more to the point you said you didn't find it believable. Well you were wrong.

The inquiry is why were you wrong? Maybe you didn't realise that the 13700K uses much less power than the 13900K? Maybe you lost the silicon lottery with your 13900K and it was using a lot more power for stock clocks than others? Maybe those 8 extra E-cores suck down additional power though not contributing to the gaming experience massively? etc.

At least now you know that even in gaming, Raptor Lake doesn't need to be the gaming power hog that your singular experience has led you to believe.

Again, you are missing the point. When your fps is that low, obviously power draw is going to be low. That's self explanatory, isn't it?

And what do you mean Raptorlake isn't a power hog, you are using 50% more watts than my 12900k does while you are getting lower framerate. How is that not a power hog?

LtMatt · 19 Apr 2023 at 22:58

Cyberpunk does draw a lot of CPU wattage if you use the right settings and test in the right area. I was not a believer but @Dave2150 and @Bencher showed me the way. Not gonna lie, it sends a shiver down my spine saying that Lol :cry:

.

I've had my 7950X3D drawing over 90W in that particular area which is higher than most other games tbh

Bencher · 19 Apr 2023 at 23:02

LtMatt said:
Cyberpunk does draw a lot of CPU wattage if you use the right settings and test in the right area. I was not a believer but @Dave2150 and @Bencher showed me the way. Not gonna lie, it sends a shiver down my spine saying that Lol .

I've had my 7950X3D drawing over 90W in that particular area which is higher than most other games tbh

Preach. I had my 13900k draw over 150 at stock. Pretty nuts

MartinPrince · 19 Apr 2023 at 23:13

Bencher said:
Again, you are missing the point. When your fps is that low, obviously power draw is going to be low. That's self explanatory, isn't it?

And what do you mean Raptorlake isn't a power hog, you are using 50% more watts than my 12900k does while you are getting lower framerate. How is that not a power hog?

You can't just look at the FPS and then try to make a simplistic point that the power draw will be low. It's simply how hard your CPU is working and you can clearly see how hard mine is working here, just in case you missed it. The 8 P-Cores are nearly maxed out.

I totally agree that this is the most CPU taxing game I play, even Spiderman taxes the CPU less and uses less power.

MartinPrince · 19 Apr 2023 at 23:24

LtMatt said:
Cyberpunk does draw a lot of CPU wattage if you use the right settings and test in the right area. I was not a believer but @Dave2150 and @Bencher showed me the way. Not gonna lie, it sends a shiver down my spine saying that Lol .

I've had my 7950X3D drawing over 90W in that particular area which is higher than most other games tbh

I agree but the point that your comment is missing is that Bencher didn't believe that my overclocked 13700k is using on average playing through CP2077 ~120W and maximum (according to HWInfo64) around ~150w.

LtMatt · 19 Apr 2023 at 23:30

MartinPrince said:
I agree but the point that your comment is missing is that Bencher didn't believe that my overclocked 13700k is using on average playing through CP2077 ~120W and maximum (according to HWInfo64) around ~150w.

I know, but there are certain locations that may draw a little bit more than that, I think. Let's test it and see if you do or don't. I can't say for sure, but I can say that when using this particular combination of settings, resolution and area tested my 7950X and 7950X3D drawed more wattage than they normallly would in this game.

1080P - Ultra RT Preset
DLSS Q
FG OFF
Crowd Density High

Use this save file, place it in the relevant folder (can't remember where save games are stored lol) and then copy the path I follow in the video below.

https://file.io/RnbI1vUEYYqa

Video was recorded on a stock 7950X3D.

Here's my 7950X running a similar (but not identical path) and drawing 150W+

Sadly I used a 7900XTX that time and not a 4090, but other than slightly lower GPU FPS I don't think the result changes too much.

Upload your own recording from that area, showing average FPS, 1% lows and CPU power draw etc.

MartinPrince · 19 Apr 2023 at 23:41

LtMatt said:
I know, but there are certain locations that may draw a little bit more than that, I think. Let's test it and see if you do or don't. I can't say for sure, but I can say that when using this particular combination of settings, resolution and area tested my 7950X and 7950X3D drawed more wattage than they normallly would in this game.

1080P - Ultra RT Preset
DLSS Q
FG OFF
Crowd Density High

Use this save file, place it in the relevant folder (can't remember where save games are stored lol) and then copy the path I follow in the video below.

https://file.io/RnbI1vUEYYqa

Video was recorded on a stock 7950X3D.

Here's my 7950X running a similar (but not identical path) and drawing 150W+

Sadly I used a 7900XTX that time and not a 4090, but other than slightly lower GPU FPS I don't think the result changes too much.

Upload your own recording from that area, showing average FPS, 1% lows and CPU power draw etc.

Thanks, I will do but The Mandalorian is calling to me right now, I've got some bingeing to do...

Jay-G25 · 19 Apr 2023 at 23:54

The 13900k can be limited to 90W and will still beat out a stock 12900k in efficiency and performance , as stock they can be a touch hungry game dependant but you can undervolt most of them and still retain all performance while lowering temps at the same time obviously can uv a 12900k as well which will have the same effect but not like you will be saving 100w doing so ... at best 10 to 20w with an uv but the 13900k will likely be doing more fps.