RDNA2 Refresh for 2022 6x50XT cards

gpuerrilla · 6 Feb 2022 at 14:03

Just to clarify @Alan McFall , I have mentioned many a thread AMD prices are an own goal after they stated there will be much supply for initial launch. Then without a UK reseller to offer some RRP stock to the market they got berated and rightly so for it. You are sidestepping the main point which is the cohort of people saying years ago they would buy AMD cards if they offered similar performance - where as @fs123 points out, this type of false statement is often not what would happen as many people are tied to their common choice. So if you can take away pricing, and availability how many people would have bought a 6800XT for £575 and chosen that over the £649 3080?

The answer will lie in these statistics as it would demonstrate 80% would get the 3080 regardless of the similar performance.

fs123 · 6 Feb 2022 at 14:24

Alan McFall said:
If you examine the evidence you'll find that it's AIB's who have been selling in quantity directly to miners throughout this pandemic and that they are also the ones who are (in effect) setting the retail prices, the fact you are blaming NVIDIA for this is revealing. AMD set the MSRP of their cards 20% higher than the last gen, Nvidia did not, infact they reduced the prices of a couple (not that this made them reasonably priced imo - £325 for a 3060.. pffft) and sold FE models at MSRP in the UK.

I have a 3080FE and I also had a 5700XT prior to that so don't waste your breath trying to point fingers.

This article negates your defence of Nvidia.

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7646...because-nvidia-sold-them-to-miners/index.html

"For the quarter in review, NVIDIA sold at least $175 million worth of new generation GPUs to ethereum miners, helping the outperformance. The analyst had guided sales to miners to come in at $150 million for the quarter".

Nvidia would never admit it directly though. Also have you wondered why the quantity of FE cards is so limited? It's because Nvidia can sell bulk chips to AIB's who sell directly to miners. If they really wanted gamers to be primary customers then they would prioritize FE cards and reduce shipments to AIB's who are neglecting retails customers.

Alan McFall · 6 Feb 2022 at 14:31

gpuerrilla said:
Just to clarify @Alan McFall , I have mentioned many a thread AMD prices are an own goal after they stated there will be much supply for initial launch. Then without a UK reseller to offer some RRP stock to the market they got berated and rightly so for it. You are sidestepping the main point which is the cohort of people saying years ago they would buy AMD cards if they offered similar performance - where as @fs123 points out, this type of false statement is often not what would happen as many people are tied to their common choice. So if you can take away pricing, and availability how many people would have bought a 6800XT for £575 and chosen that over the £649 3080?

The answer will lie in these statistics as it would demonstrate 80% would get the 3080 regardless of the similar performance.

Comes down to technology and features.. personally I wanted RRT last gen but decide to wait for the tec to mature.. why would I but an RX card with RT comparable to 20 series ?

Nvidia are the innovators of the GPU sector, the only people to blame for that are Nvidia as they have invested the R&D. AMD are still behind.

6800XT was $649, 3080 $699 btw.. how many people would pay the extra $50 for second generation RRT and DLSS ? Most people would I think, especially when there are tec reviewers highlighting these things.

If RX7000 has comparable RT performance to RTX4000, is competitively priced and availble i'd have one, no questions. I like to think the majority of people are like me, loyal to the best tec at the time.

gpuerrilla · 6 Feb 2022 at 14:33

Exactly. The perfect distraction tactic was "low hash rate" which has and was always going to be circumvented by miners and a waste of resources. So it was a political hoodwink to fool the masses into thinking they are 'with the gamers'. Codswallop.

gpuerrilla · 6 Feb 2022 at 14:36

Alan McFall said:
Comes down to technology and features.. personally I wanted RRT last gen but decide to wait for the tec to mature.. why would I but an RX card with RT comparable to 20 series ?

Nvidia are the innovators of the GPU sector, the only people to blame for that are Nvidia as they have invested the R&D. AMD are still behind.

6800XT was $649, 3080 $699 btw.. how many people would pay the extra $50 for second generation RRT and DLSS ? Most people would I think, especially when there are tec reviewers highlighting these things.

If RX7000 has comparable RT performance to RTX4000, is competitively priced and availble i'd have one, no questions. I like to think the majority of people are like me, loyal to the best tec at the time.

I do not need to answer to this as anyone reading it will see for themselves how they interpret your stance.

Your making it our that every game available has RT or needs DLSS. Your focusing on the 5% of games out there if that not also including the other 5% that will be the polar opposite and favour AMD cards.

Alan McFall · 6 Feb 2022 at 14:36

fs123 said:
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/7646...because-nvidia-sold-them-to-miners/index.html

This article negates your defence of Nvidia.

Nvidia would never admit it directly though. Also have you wondered why the quantity of FE cards is so limited? It's because Nvidia can sell bulk chips to AIB's who sell directly to miners. If they really wanted gamers to be primary customers then they would prioritize FE cards and reduce shipments to AIB's who are neglecting retails customers.

I remember the rumour but it was never substantiated (point the way if you can find confirmation, I wouldn't be suprised), there was however photo evidence of mining rigs with 20+ cards from the same AIB in them and direct confirmation from miners that this was result of back door sales.

gpuerrilla · 6 Feb 2022 at 14:40

Alan McFall said:
I remember the rumour but it was never substantiated (point the way if you can find confirmation, I wouldn't be suprised), there was however photo evidence of mining rigs with 20+ cards from the same AIB in them and direct confirmation from miners that this was result of back door sales.

If you look at all the miner channels out there, they have 90% nvidia GPU's. Those using 6000's are small in comparison and will tend to have older polaris cards to mine ETH (470/480/570/580).

fs123 · 6 Feb 2022 at 15:24

Alan McFall said:
I remember the rumour but it was never substantiated (point the way if you can find confirmation, I wouldn't be suprised), there was however photo evidence of mining rigs with 20+ cards from the same AIB in them and direct confirmation from miners that this was result of back door sales.

It's not a rumour though. It was from a financial analyst (Barrons) who has looked into Nvidia's financial statements (Q3 2020 earnings report) and written a report for clients.

Alan McFall · 6 Feb 2022 at 15:25

gpuerrilla said:
I do not need to answer to this as anyone reading it will see for themselves how they interpret your stance.

Your making it our that every game available has RT or needs DLSS. Your focusing on the 5% of games out there if that not also including the other 5% that will be the polar opposite and favour AMD cards.

I'm not making anything out, it's just what I wanted as a comsumer this generation. I know what you're saying in regard to the small sample of games but you must also acknowledge that the development community are moving in the RTT direction becuse it is superior.

gpuerrilla · 6 Feb 2022 at 15:36

Alan McFall said:
I'm not making anything out, it's just what I wanted as a comsumer this generation. I know what you're saying in regard to the small sample of games but you must also acknowledge that the development community are moving in the RTT direction becuse it is superior.

There is a distinction between acknowledging a technology and accepting it as the norm. Like I have said, when it appeared in Turing marketing we have had years of it to sample and if you look back we are already nearing the 40 series cards launching in seven months time where the RT power on them will be where nvidia wanted you to think hardware RT was back in 2018. My additional point being the 2080Ti from that era has a fighting chance but as you slide down the stack the feature was really just a possibility rather than a 'its a superior' feature as people running a 2060 with RT on will be having some major compromises to make when it comes to titles showcasing it right now.

Alan McFall · 6 Feb 2022 at 15:57

fs123 said:
It's not a rumour though. It was from a financial analyst (Barrons) who has looked into Nvidia's financial statements (Q3 2020 earnings report) and written a report for clients.

'Bitcoin.com reported based on a note from RBC Capital Markets analyst Mitch Steves. “The analyst had guided sales to miners to come in at $150 million for the quarter.”'

Can't seem to find this note (the guy seems to say a lot that can't be confirmed in regards to NVidia and GPU mining sector profit, also the term 'guided sales' is used to describe these figures) but it would not suprise me if true, another area where Ampere outperforms RDNA2.

Alan McFall · 6 Feb 2022 at 16:21

gpuerrilla said:
There is a distinction between acknowledging a technology and accepting it as the norm. Like I have said, when it appeared in Turing marketing we have had years of it to sample and if you look back we are already nearing the 40 series cards launching in seven months time where the RT power on them will be where nvidia wanted you to think hardware RT was back in 2018. My additional point being the 2080Ti from that era has a fighting chance but as you slide down the stack the feature was really just a possibility rather than a 'its a superior' feature as people running a 2060 with RT on will be having some major compromises to make when it comes to titles showcasing it right now.

I mentioned that I skipped the RTX 2000 series due to the tec not quite being there and the pricing did not help sway me in a positive direction, but I also knew the tec was heading that way (if you've done any 3D rendering then you would likely regard it as the obvious and ideal progression).

Regardless of what any corporation want's you to think in regard to their technology you have to think critically and that responsibility is on the inividual, 3060TI is what I wanted and expected.

How long until the console refresh ?

gpuerrilla · 6 Feb 2022 at 17:30

Alan McFall said:
I mentioned that I skipped the RTX 2000 series due to the tec not quite being there and the pricing did not help sway me in a positive direction, but I also knew the tec was heading that way (if you've done any 3D rendering then you would likely regard it as the obvious and ideal progression).

Regardless of what any corporation want's you to think in regard to their technology you have to think critically and that responsibility is on the inividual, 3060TI is what I wanted and expected.

How long until the console refresh ?

Yes I think console refresh inbound. The personal choice of yours is a good one, as you skipped Turing. We are only starting to see the results for example in dying light 2 (just released). As its very game specific I am merely highlighting it should not be the chief feature of a purchase. You are also implying that AMD have nothing to offer and stagnated which is odd as they have brought to the table lots of features and could be argued have stretched nvidia to press with them such as nvidia image scaling and resizeable bar.

4K8KW10 · 6 Feb 2022 at 18:41

KompuKare said:
Isn't the XTX binning already 18 gbps? It is according to TPU's database anyhow:
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-rx-6900-xtx.c3800

Guess there is not much faster available? A pity as 6900 does seem memory constrained. That is at 1080P it leads the 3090, at 1440P is fairly even, at 2160P is ends up behind. Either faster memory or more Infinity Cache. Stacked 3D cache for the top SKU is the obvious answer but that's not coming yet (AFAIK).

Game clock is rumoured now to be 2.5 GHz.
Remember the vanilla RX 6900 XT has as low as 2.015 GHz game clocks as reference.
AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT Specs | TechPowerUp GPU Database

AMD Radeon RX 6950XT 'RDNA 2 Refresh' Graphics Card To Rock Over 2.5 GHz Boost Clock (wccftech.com)

Alan McFall · 6 Feb 2022 at 19:32

gpuerrilla said:
Yes I think console refresh inbound. The personal choice of yours is a good one, as you skipped Turing. We are only starting to see the results for example in dying light 2 (just released). As its very game specific I am merely highlighting it should not be the chief feature of a purchase. You are also implying that AMD have nothing to offer and stagnated which is odd as they have brought to the table lots of features and could be argued have stretched nvidia to press with them such as nvidia image scaling and resizeable bar.

SAM is very impressive. Image scaling/sharpening isn't new, both companies had existing features at driver level which they improved and re-packaged. AMD have caught up on raster performance which is promising for 7000series as they can now focus on refinement.. although leaks are suggesting that they're taking raster to the moon

Joxeon · 6 Feb 2022 at 19:53

gpuerrilla said:
Just to clarify @Alan McFall , I have mentioned many a thread AMD prices are an own goal after they stated there will be much supply for initial launch. Then without a UK reseller to offer some RRP stock to the market they got berated and rightly so for it. You are sidestepping the main point which is the cohort of people saying years ago they would buy AMD cards if they offered similar performance - where as @fs123 points out, this type of false statement is often not what would happen as many people are tied to their common choice. So if you can take away pricing, and availability how many people would have bought a 6800XT for £575 and chosen that over the £649 3080?

The answer will lie in these statistics as it would demonstrate 80% would get the 3080 regardless of the similar performance.

AMD either needs to be 15% faster on raster for the same price or price the cards around 15% cheaper for the same raster as Nvidia cards currently offer the superior RT and have DLSS + nvenc. If they can offer that then I may bite.

stooeh · 6 Feb 2022 at 21:21

I don't really need RT - its nice if it's there and can be used while still getting decent FPS but I am definitely a DLSS convert. No idea what I'll get next time round, might be be priced out of my reach anyway with pants availability!

Gerard · 6 Feb 2022 at 22:20

Wonder if amd will finally figure out the black magic spell for the amount of chickens that need to be sacrificed and goats bummed to actually have cards available on their so called store.

gpuerrilla · 6 Feb 2022 at 23:06

Think we can only expect in hope for it to be possible in 7000 release now @Gerard

Gerard · 7 Feb 2022 at 00:25

gpuerrilla said:
Think we can only expect in hope for it to be possible in 7000 release now @Gerard

Doubting it myself, amd have been utterly incompetent in that area. How long it take to get something like thay sorted out as it's over a year now, and we were hearing it would be sorted in a few months.