Receiving calls from customers.

[TW]Fox · 27 Nov 2008 at 16:15

TheDean said:
If it has, then you would know full well that it is never neither simple, nor straightforward!

Oh sure, infact it's often very interesting, which is why most of us on this forum spend money on it and do it in our free time as a hobby but come on, none of it is skilled work is it?

Whats the most difficult job you'll ever have to do for a consumer? Perhaps hard drive recovery, which is quite difficult but you'll use specific software solutions in order to do or send it to a data recovery expert anyway. Beyond that, what? Total system failiure involving a complete reinstall of windows? Oh no! What about a total CPU upgrade :eek:

I'm not disputing the importance of home PC repair men nor the validity of the work they do. But it's not skilled labour and this is why some people are rather shocked at how much some people charge for it.

Especially when you consider most of the target market are.. shall we say, the lower demographics. Who is going to be pleased about spending 5 hours wages on a guy to come and remove a virus?

Whiskas · 27 Nov 2008 at 16:17

What's easier, wiring up a house or speccing, designing and building a custom off-site backup solution?

Or for a more apples and apples comparison, wiring a house up with RJ45 with an external facing firewall and a DMZ

I suppose the thread illustrates a certain level of ignorance but then that's OK, with your £20K car that you pay "skilled craftsmen" to service Im sure you won't begrudge paying the going rate when your laptop goes belly-up

I do agree however that a lot of what people get called out to do is pretty basic stuff although malware removal done properly (i.e. not just running Adaware and saying "that's it clean") can be surprisingly tricky and even installing a new OS isn't that straightforward, particularly if the user requires files/ settings/ applications to be migrated as well.

Skull · 27 Nov 2008 at 16:17

I suppose it depends a little bit on the actual PC repair done - if you're the sort who is replacing capacitors and transistors, soldering and so forth, then you're getting onto something that requires training, skill and experience. However if its the case that you're just replacing old/broken components and installing software, I don't think that counts as requiring training, skill and experience on the same level as the examples Fox has given. PC building is really very little more plugging and screwing a 20-odd things together. That's not an oversimplification in the same way that saying wiring a house is "just screwing some wires together". There's only one slot a GPU can go into, only one place you can put a CPU.

"andy" · 27 Nov 2008 at 16:19

Skull said:
. PC building is really very little more plugging and screwing a 20-odd things together. That's not an oversimplification in the same way that saying wiring a house is "just screwing some wires together". There's only one slot a GPU can go into, only one place you can put a CPU.

basic electrician work IS just screwing wires together though. well 3 wires

a house re wire is nothing comparable to building a pc . its more like what whiskas says

TheDean · 27 Nov 2008 at 16:20

All I'm saying is, it is more skilled than you're making out.

[TW]Fox · 27 Nov 2008 at 16:20

'My hard drive is making funny noises'

Turn up with new HDD. Put into machine. Run Norton Ghost. Drink coffee. Remove old HDD.

Skilled stuff, eh.

Nix · 27 Nov 2008 at 16:22

It's all relative in my opinion. It's only easy when you know how.

Dano · 27 Nov 2008 at 16:22

[TW]Fox;12979729 said:
'My hard drive is making funny noises'

Turn up with new HDD. Put into machine. Run Norton Ghost. Drink coffee. Remove old HDD.

Skilled stuff, eh.

If the client doesn't know how and accepts the hourly rate then who gives a damn, they're free to say no and go elsewhere.

[TW]Fox · 27 Nov 2008 at 16:23

Dano said:
If the client doesn't know how and accepts the hourly rate then who gives a damn

Well I dunno, how about the OP given he's moaning about people who ring up and are suprised at his hourly rate, and asking us why :confused:

KNiVES · 27 Nov 2008 at 16:23

I'm with Fox here, come on, I assembled my own PC, swapped parts in and out, busted a few PSUs and did enough troubleshooting and BIOS tweaking to turn anyone insane - all at the tender age of 13.

It's NOT skilled labour. I used to work in plastics extrusion which was far harder, and that's classed as unskilled labour too. Computer component changing and troubleshooting simply should not be classed as skilled labour. Working on actual PCBs and software development using software code libraries (such as C++ or java) - now that's skilled labour.

Wicksta · 27 Nov 2008 at 16:23

Nix said:
It's all relative in my opinion. It's only easy when you know how.

I have talked my parents through fixing their PC many times, installing hard disks, cards etc.

I certainly wouldn't want to teach them how to plaster or rewire a house over the phone.

"andy" · 27 Nov 2008 at 16:24

[TW]Fox;12979729 said:
'My hard drive is making funny noises'

Turn up with new HDD. Put into machine. Run Norton Ghost. Drink coffee. Remove old HDD.

Skilled stuff, eh.

'theres a pool of water under my sink, under that bend that looks like a U'

Turn up with new U bend. remove old U bend. fit new u bend. drink tea

both are comparable as they both take 10 minutes

so why in your opinion is the pumber worth more than IT guy ?

KNiVES · 27 Nov 2008 at 16:27

"andy" said:
'theres a pool of water under my sink, under that bend that looks like a U'

Turn up with new U bend. remove old U bend. fit new u bend. drink tea

both are comparable as they both take 10 minutes

so why in your opinion is the pumber worth more than IT guy ?

Because you need training and actual qualifications for plumbing - of which the obvious mundane jobs that anyone can do is part of the job. There are things in plumbing that a lot of people just absolutely cannot do - in the world of computers this is extremely less so. Plumbers are worth the money because they do all the piping and difficult tasks that nobody else can. You just referred to a pretty rubbish example there of why plumbers aren't really worth the money people pay them for.

How about if the piping in the walls began leaking, or your taps have stopped running and you've no idea why or where the fault is? Or if you need a new shower fitted but no pipelines accessible to where you want to place it? I could go on and on.

Wicksta · 27 Nov 2008 at 16:28

"andy" said:
'theres a pool of water under my sink, under that bend that looks like a U'

Turn up with new U bend. remove old U bend. fit new u bend. drink tea

both are comparable as they both take 10 minutes

so why in your opinion is the pumber worth more than IT guy ?

Because it doesn't really ever get more complicated than in Fox's example.

How many people on Overclockers could quite easily put an advert in the paper and run a PC repair business without any training and get on fine? 70-80%?

How many people on a DIY forum could become plasterers or electricians without any training? How many people on car forums could start a mechanics or bodywork business without any training?

PC's are simple devices. End of.

TheDean · 27 Nov 2008 at 16:28

[TW]Fox;12979729 said:
'My hard drive is making funny noises'

Turn up with new HDD. Put into machine. Run Norton Ghost. Drink coffee. Remove old HDD.

Skilled stuff, eh.

Why do it ? Are you a **** like this in real life? You know full well that chaging a HD is nowhere near the most complicated issue you may have from a job.

bizarre

Dr House · 27 Nov 2008 at 16:28

It all depends how skilled your work is, if your fixing a complex network I don’t think 35/h is unreasonable but if your fixing a home pc I personally feel it’s on the high side. We charge 17 /h to install a satellite dish which involves someone climbing on to a roof (normally 6 floors up) in the freezing cold or hot sun.

"andy" · 27 Nov 2008 at 16:30

Wicksta said:
I have talked my parents through fixing their PC many times, installing hard disks, cards etc.

I certainly wouldn't want to teach them how to plaster or rewire a house over the phone.

why the hell do people keep comparing building a pc to rewiring or plastering a full house

can people not see they are completely different types of jobs

the argument started because people said pc building isnt worth 35quid per hour. a rewire will cost a shedload in labour. not the 35/70 quid labour it will cost to get a pc built for you

"andy" · 27 Nov 2008 at 16:32

Wicksta said:
How many people on a DIY forum could become plasterers or electricians without any training? How many people on car forums could start a mechanics or bodywork business without any training?

PC's are simple devices. End of.

pcs are simple to YOU. not to everyone

im pretty sure plenty of people on car forums could start doing home car and body repairs. and plenty on DIY forums could run a handyman buisness

Wicksta · 27 Nov 2008 at 16:32

"andy" said:
why the hell do people keep comparing building a pc to rewiring or plastering a full house

can people not see they are completely different types of jobs

That's the whole point, one is a skilled job which requires training, the other job could be done by blindfolded monkeys.

Sweetloaf · 27 Nov 2008 at 16:32

"andy" said:
'theres a pool of water under my sink, under that bend that looks like a U'

Turn up with new U bend. remove old U bend. fit new u bend. drink tea

WRONG!

As Fox pointed out, you must drink the drink whilst doing the work not afterwards, then this cannot be misconstrued as upping the time spent on the job.