Soldato
Yes they're already in the Stone Age, so I guess we're bombing them back to the Pre-Stone Age.
Red Sea / Houthi rebels situation
- Thread starter Stu999
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Soldato
Not just us
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It doesn't seem like the West has a cost effective answer to the "axis". With Russia being on a wartime footing they have the manufacturing capabilities.
So do Iran with their cheap drones. Seeing a lot more innovation from them e.g. Shahed-238.
I would have thought the US knew they weren't going to have the monopoly on drones forever and would develop something cheaper than $2 million missiles.
Uncomfortable to think but their military aura will be damaged if the Houthis are successful in taking out one of their ships.
www.theguardian.com
So do Iran with their cheap drones. Seeing a lot more innovation from them e.g. Shahed-238.
I would have thought the US knew they weren't going to have the monopoly on drones forever and would develop something cheaper than $2 million missiles.
Uncomfortable to think but their military aura will be damaged if the Houthis are successful in taking out one of their ships.
Deadly, cheap and widespread: how Iran-supplied drones are changing the nature of warfare
Attacks using Shahed drones have been carried out by militias in the Middle East and Russia in Ukraine
www.theguardian.com
It is weird how so few people really seem to understand drones in warfare especially those who have a long history in the armed forces seem slow to recognise the situation with them.
Indeed I see it as a huge vulnerability. The ability to iterate is is also disproportionate, as say a couple years into the future drones may be vastly improved, whereas I don't expect the US warships to have changed much.
Soldato
Somethings wrong, shut the light
Heavy thoughts tonight
And they aren't of Snow White
Dreams of war, dreams of liars
Dreams of
Heavy thoughts tonight
And they aren't of Snow White
Dreams of war, dreams of liars
Dreams of
And of things that will bite, yeah.
It would be interesting to see how effective a laser weapon is, against a drone or missile that's coated in highly reflective or ablative material.
Although I imagine the sorts of things it's built to defend against aren't exactly cutting edge
Although I imagine the sorts of things it's built to defend against aren't exactly cutting edge
If that happened I would imagine the US would flatten the whole area - especially if Trump is at the wheel.It doesn't seem like the West has a cost effective answer to the "axis". With Russia being on a wartime footing they have the manufacturing capabilities.
So do Iran with their cheap drones. Seeing a lot more innovation from them e.g. Shahed-238.
I would have thought the US knew they weren't going to have the monopoly on drones forever and would develop something cheaper than $2 million missiles.
Uncomfortable to think but their military aura will be damaged if the Houthis are successful in taking out one of their ships.
Deadly, cheap and widespread: how Iran-supplied drones are changing the nature of warfare
Attacks using Shahed drones have been carried out by militias in the Middle East and Russia in Ukraine
Soldato
Wonder if there's any thoughts around giant party poppers as last line of defense? Have some kind of sensor that can detect a drone at a minimum distance, fire off the party popper putting lots of strandes in the air to tangle the propellers and take down the drone?It would be interesting to see how effective a laser weapon is, against a drone or missile that's coated in highly reflective or ablative material.
Although I imagine the sorts of things it's built to defend against aren't exactly cutting edge
I guess something like https://newatlas.com/military/darpa-streamers-counter-drone-swarms-urban-areas/ but for last ditch defense against shape charge carrying drones
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Why do you think that? I'd expect just about every major defence manufacturing firm will be developing anti-drone technology whether it's electronic counter-measures to offensive weapons.
There are some solutions in the pipeline:
It looks like Iran have been working on Laser weapons too.
Iran Claims Development of Laser Cannon for Aerial Targets
Iran claims it has produced and begun deploying a laser weapon capable of countering aerial threats, including enemy drones.
www.thedefensepost.com
The development of non-conventional weapons makes things a bit different to the original Cold War. Back then there was a belief that a hot war would mean nuclear weapons and mutually assured destruction. But with new technologies, countries have carte blanche to utilise them however they like, and refine them until they have a definitively competitive advantage. The Red Sea and Ukraine are essentially testing grounds at the moment.
I haven't heard anything about the Houthis using sea drones but I would bet they are thinking along those lines too. Hitting a few containers is one thing but taking out the hull of a cargo ship would be a big gain for them and set a template for future attacks.
The cost, logistics, time of upgrading an existing ship e.g.
Navy Destroyer Modernization Program Could Cost $17B, Take Up to 2 Years Per Hull - USNI News
ARLINGTON, Va. – The plan to upgrade the Navy’s fleet of Flight IIA Arleigh Burke guided-missile destroyers with new radars and electronic warfare suites is estimated to cost about $17 billion and take anywhere from a year and a half to two years to upgrade each warship, USNI News has learned...
news.usni.org
Drone technology is relatively new and advancing quickly, any defensive tech that is developed will become outdated quickly too.
Soldato
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I don't really understand the technology, but it's clear from Ukraine that commercially available equipment is effective.
Drones do seem like a paradigm shift, similar to the machine gun. Orthodoxy will struggle with clouds of, or even small numbers of, low tech drones- we're already seeing that.
I see low-cost, low- technology drones as a very worrying development. Quick and dirty could lead to real issues.
But they will have changed?The cost, logistics, time of upgrading an existing ship e.g.
Navy Destroyer Modernization Program Could Cost $17B, Take Up to 2 Years Per Hull - USNI News
ARLINGTON, Va. – The plan to upgrade the Navy’s fleet of Flight IIA Arleigh Burke guided-missile destroyers with new radars and electronic warfare suites is estimated to cost about $17 billion and take anywhere from a year and a half to two years to upgrade each warship, USNI News has learned...
Drone technology is relatively new and advancing quickly, any defensive tech that is developed will become outdated quickly too.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 30 Jul 2013
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- 29,048
Whoever wrote the second series of ITV's Trigger Point has been thinking the same thing
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Soldato
The biggest issue with Lasers right now (outside of cost, range limits and development time) for practically destroying a target is the time taken for the beam to actually have an effect on a target. A bullet, missile or shrapnel dramatically effects a target within microseconds of an impact, whereas a Laser right now still takes seconds to have an effect and with swarms you may not have the time to continually keep a single drone targetted for the time required. So if you add the bits you mentioned to a drone (even simple chrome/mirrored coating) it'll make that "time till damage" equation way less useful than the more simple "throw something physically at it" version.
One thing even low powered laser can potentially do is blind sensors on a drone, though not so useful if they are pre-programmed on a path, but very handy against anything loitering, FPV controlled or using optical target recognition.
Though a bit harder to utilise against terrain hugging drones, which is something drones can do quite well with the right hardware, programming and/or operator.
It should be noted that two of the main reasons drones have been so incredibly effective in Ukraine are because (A) the most prolific supplier of drones to Ukraine (Turkey) operate Russian AA systems and so it makes sense that their drones would be additionally effective at exploiting the weaknesses of such systems. And (B) because in an effort to save money Russia scrapped almost all of their ZSU anti air units (imagine somebody stuck a Phalanx CIWS on top of a T-55 hull and you're basically their, functionally if not visually) because they thought that they wouldn't need to defend their ground units against visual range air attack due to always fighting with air supremacy and having mobile SAMs.
So while drones are indeed highly effective, and arguably the future of warfare, it should be noted that their operational effectiveness is currently being distorted somewhat right now due to the fact that they are mostly being utilised in combat against an enemy who not only has no drone defence but has actively taken steps to inadvertently make themselves much more susceptible to drone attack than other modern militaries.
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