Rees-Mogg: increased usage of food banks 'uplifting'

[dowie]

Ah yes, my bad - haven't slept in 4 weeks.

I guess murder is technically the incorrect word to use, however I think it was clear what I meant.

not particularly - are you objecting to late stage abortions or abortions in general - including morning after pill or earlier medical abortions? If the latter then are you also opposed to male masturbation?

 

[enkoda]

So a "foetus" the day before birth isn't a child? When exactly is it a child? If you like I can clarify myself better and say call it potentially viable child..

and if you consider it a child then are there not rights that it might have? Or should woman have the rights to terminate up to day of birth? Hell, the child can't live by itself so why should woman have to keep it alive? Why are we not allowed to take drugs and do what we want? When you look at a lot of laws you could question what we are allowed to do...

Birth control I can understand, abortion I really cannot.

If you cannot understand why a woman would ever want an abortion then you simply aren't in a position to be advocating the removal or further restriction of women's rights.

I just had my boy at 27 weeks old, almost had him at 24 weeks but we're extremely lucky he hung on. They are people from very early on, tiny, tiny people. Murder is murder regardless of how you shape it.

Better jail all those doctors who have switched off life support equipment....

 

[NVP]

not particularly - are you objecting to late stage abortions or abortions in general - including morning after pill or earlier medical abortions? If the latter then are you also opposed to male masturbation?

OK, well say at 10 weeks my babies heart was fully developed and I could see it beating on the scan... that's too late.

At 5 weeks his arms are beginning to sprout, his neural tube is developed and his heart is already beating blood around his body.

The research is there telling us how they are developing at each stage yet the current limit is ridiculous. Who are we to decide when a fetus is more than just cells?

 

[dowie]

OK, well say at 10 weeks my babies heart was fully developed and I could see it beating on the scan... that's too late.

At 5 weeks his arms are beginning to sprout, his neural tube is developed and his heart is already beating blood around his body.

The research is there telling us how they are developing at each stage yet the current limit is ridiculous. Who are we to decide when a fetus is more than just cells?

so you're OK with abortions before 10 weeks?

 

[Glaucus]

OK, well say at 10 weeks my babies heart was fully developed and I could see it beating on the scan... that's too late.

At 5 weeks his arms are beginning to sprout, his neural tube is developed and his heart is already beating blood around his body.

The research is there telling us how they are developing at each stage yet the current limit is ridiculous. Who are we to decide when a fetus is more than just cells?

A heart does not a human make. We already have laws on brain death the same can be used to determine when abortion should be illegal and surprise surprise it's fairly late.

 

[stewski]

OK, well say at 10 weeks my babies heart was fully developed and I could see it beating on the scan... that's too late.

At 5 weeks his arms are beginning to sprout, his neural tube is developed and his heart is already beating blood around his body.

The research is there telling us how they are developing at each stage yet the current limit is ridiculous. Who are we to decide when a fetus is more than just cells?

Well the person who that developing life can kill is involved!

 

[Vonhelmet]

who is?

Sorry, not you, sports_brah

 

[Tefal]

sports brah in wildy retarded rant shocker

 

[Tefal]

OK, well say at 10 weeks my babies heart was fully developed and I could see it beating on the scan... that's too late.

At 5 weeks his arms are beginning to sprout, his neural tube is developed and his heart is already beating blood around his body.

The research is there telling us how they are developing at each stage yet the current limit is ridiculous. Who are we to decide when a fetus is more than just cells?

I belive we draw the line at the point the feautus csn survive alone (statistically).

but let's put it this way.

if you ban abortion, how many pregnant suicides is worth your idealistic choice?

 

[NVP]

so you're OK with abortions before 10 weeks?

No, sorry I guess I still wasn't clear.

A heart does not a human make. We already have laws on brain death the same can be used to determine when abortion should be illegal and surprise surprise it's fairly late.

I get that argument and understand how the laws are decided, but I still see it as immoral to halt the creation of a new life.

Well the person who that developing life can kill is involved!

My wife was minutes away from dying by the time we reached hoapital so I understand completely, but that is a rare case and unfortunately if the baby is less than 24 weeks there's no legal onus (?) to save them, shamefully.

I belive we draw the line at the point the feautus csn survive alone (statistically).

but let's put it this way.

if you ban abortion, how many pregnant suicides is worth your idealistic choice?

I know, but I still feel we should do all we can whatever gestation. I don't feel a ban on abortion is correct, it is a complex issue and to take my small personal statement as approval of a ban is incorrect, but I can see how it can be taken that way.

 

[Glaucus]

I get that argument and understand how the laws are decided, but I still see it as immoral to halt the creation of a new life.

.

A massively illogical argument, as humans we halt life every day, through our own actions and through nature's own actions.
A world where that logic applies does not and can not exist.

 

[dowie]

No, sorry I guess I still wasn't clear.

So do you object to the morning after pill?

Or how about using an IUD coil as a form of birth control?

Or even masturbation? (This isn't intended as mocking - some Catholics are opposed to all of these)

 

[enkoda]

I get that argument and understand how the laws are decided, but I still see it as immoral to halt the creation of a new life.

My wife was minutes away from dying by the time we reached hoapital so I understand completely, but that is a rare case and unfortunately if the baby is less than 24 weeks there's no legal onus (?) to save them, shamefully.

I'm pleased that not only did your baby make it, but also that your wife survived, it must've been terrible for all of you.

I'm interested to know why you deem abortion immoral - is it due to religious belief or some other reason?

 

[NVP]

A massively illogical argument, as humans we halt life every day, through our own actions and through nature's own actions.
A world where that logic applies does not and can not exist.

Sorry spock. I think human emotion plays a big part.

I'm pleased that not only did your baby make it, but also that your wife survived, it must've been terrible for all of you.

I'm interested to know why you deem abortion immoral - is it due to religious belief or some other reason?

Thank you for the very kind words. Yes, it's been quite the rollercoaster but I can feel the gradient easing.

I'm not religious, just my own opinion that the good side of nature isn't impeded.

 

[Glaucus]

Sorry spock. I think human emotion plays a big part.

not when making law it shouldn't. you should also be able to think enough to overcome emotion, when not in a spur of the moment, and if not then you really should train yourself in critical thinking. Emotion should have zero basis in law.

 

[NVP]

So do you object to the morning after pill?

Or how about using an IUD coil as a form of birth control?

Or even masturbation? (This isn't intended as mocking - some Catholics are opposed to all of these)

I think I've derailed the thread enough without going into the complexities of the issue, I just wanted to add a human side to the sub-topic

 

[dowie]

I think I've derailed the thread enough without going into the complexities of the issue, I just wanted to add a human side to the sub-topic

I was just trying to clarify as your position wasn't clear and it still isn't clear where you'd draw the line - as in are you OK with a ball of cells/embryo being destroyed as per the morning after pill or when an IUD coil is fitted preventing the embryo from embedding in the lining of the womb

it seemed from your answer previously that you might have been OK with abortions up to 10 weeks but then that changed so I was curious as to where the line was and why that's all.

 

[Participant]

If you can't tell the difference between someone working a day to day job, and people who manage and influence change in society, then I guess you should ask for a dictionary for Christmas so you can look up the term nuance.

You've gotten yourself all confused I'm afraid. Spook187 said everyone with a job was working class, I said this wasn't true, you said it could be true within reason, then proceeded to list a bunch of examples of people with jobs .

The sort of job defining one's class is a different question, but it only supports my view that simply having a job doesn't preclude one from being middle class.

You've gone off on a tangent and argued against a straw man position, whether that's deliberate or just a lack of reading comprehension, I'm not sure.

 

[Freakbro]

when you go to work in the morning, if your name is on the front of the building, you're upper class; if your name is on your desk, you're middle class; and if your name is on your shirt, you're working class.

 

[enkoda]

I'm not religious, just my own opinion that the good side of nature isn't impeded.

Surely nature is just nature being nature?