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Respected Game Developers Prefer GCN Programming Documentation Over GameWorks “black boxes”

Rroff said:
Which is a load of rubbish

http://www.nvidia.co.uk/content/PDF/kepler/NVIDIA-Kepler-GK110-Architecture-Whitepaper.pdf

http://docs.nvidia.com/gameworks/index.html

etc. etc. not to mention extensive sample and game development whitepapers, etc. nvidia do and if you license the gameworks libraries you get far more access to the source and documentation than is available publicly let alone if you make use of the nVidia's developer relations programs theres a whole extra level of support even to the point they will build development drivers for specific needs and rollout the features into the release drivers for a game release.
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The first one is an overview.

I dont see the point to lie. Even timothy lottes says the same. Which he was an important ex- nvidia employ and now an epic one. We dont know why it going one behind the scenes so we can only speculate. Or put ltmatt to ask them :P
 
Sugarhell said:
The first one is an overview.

I dont see the point to lie. Even timothy lottes says the same. Which he was an important ex- nvidia employ and now an epic one. We dont know why it going one behind the scenes so we can only speculate. Or put ltmatt to ask them :P
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I wonder what reason an ex-employee would have to rubbish/bad-mouth his former employers...
 
GoogalyMoogaly said:
I wonder what reason an ex-employee would have to rubbish/bad-mouth his former employers...
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Considering the relationship between Nvidia and Epic he probably has good reason's not to bad mouth Nvidia yet he still has. You could say the same about the ubi-soft guys as well. Just because he is an ex employee does not mean he left them on bad terms as well.
 
Sugarhell said:
The first one is an overview.

I dont see the point to lie. Even timothy lottes says the same. Which he was an important ex- nvidia employ and now an epic one. We dont know why it going one behind the scenes so we can only speculate. Or put ltmatt to ask them :P
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It was just an example of the documentation out there publicly let alone what is available to developers.

As to which is better I can't say as I've never done any low level programming for GCN and my coding for nVidia GPUs is rusty but its certainly not true to say nVidia's documentation is poor even if GCN is better.
 
TheRealDeal said:
Considering the relationship between Nvidia and Epic he probably has good reason's not to bad mouth Nvidia yet he still has. You could say the same about the ubi-soft guys as well. Just because he is an ex employee does not mean he left them on bad terms as well.
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This is true, but he probably has a disclaimer that his thoughts and views are not that of Epics.

I'm also guessing that these guys don't have enough input to stop their companies using things like GameWorks (otherwise why would they have?), so their opinions won't make much difference either way. So they're respected, but not to the point where their own companies listen to them?
Or maybe these companies won't use Nvidia tech any more, time will tell I guess.

I wonder if there will still be GameWorks when DirectX 12 becomes more established?
 
looking at the full conversation, they are all talking about how great it is developing for consoles, hence the comment that "openness is awesome and one factor, but consoles are the dominant one"

puts the whole convo in to perspective
 
mmj_uk said:
What developers think is irrelevent from an end user perspective, I buy my graphics card based on what it will be like to use day in and day out for gaming, that's all that matters to me.

There seems to be a new breed of super fanboy (particularly on the AMD side) that just sit trawling the internet all day to find any information which they can twist to suit their agenda and then rush to post it on OCUK. If you guys were as committed to gaming as you are promoting AMD you might actually come to prefer NVidia.
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Its far from irrelevent what developers think, 'they' not Nvidia make the choice and the games.

As for "Fanboys" better in my opinon to have Developers being AMD "FanBoys" ;)
 
humbug said:
Its far from irrelevent what developers think, 'they' not Nvidia make the choice and the games.

As for "Fanboys" better in my opinon to have Developers being AMD "FanBoys" ;)
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What mmj is saying as himself as a end user he doesnt care what the dev's think of it he buys what he finds best for him

Not sure how you can argue what a dev thinks/doesnt think is more relevant to a end user than the end user themselves thinks
 
triss said:
What mmj is saying as himself as a end user he doesnt care what the dev's think of it he buys what he finds best for him

Not sure how you can argue what a dev thinks/doesnt think is more relevant to a end user than the end user themselves thinks
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You obviously didn't read my post, what mmj thinks is irrelevant, all that matters is what Devs Think.

Its far from irrelevent what developers think, 'they' not Nvidia make the choice and the games.

As for "Fanboys" better in my opinon to have Developers being AMD "FanBoys" ;)
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You obviously didnt note he made two separate statements .

His relevance quote is about him as a end user and what he buys/uses

Fanboy topics should go sit somewhere else really from both sides and try to keep them out of general dicusssion
 
Never heard of Charlie eyetrip. I am in fact me and as i posted the original topic i found this interesting. First because it confirms the first article and second because it was interesting to see the game developers talk about the "black boxes" of GameWorks and GCN programming documentation that way. Apologies if this offends or makes difficult reading for some, but there you have it. Try not to get too emotionally attached would be my advice to you. Also its not a bash at Nvidia, i did not say those things. I merely picked up on it and posted it here for a discussion. Unfortunately most here are incapable of such a thing without resulting to insults in some form or another.
 
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Charlie demergian I think was the name of the guy I was thinking of.

And believe me, I suffer no emotional attachments to either gpu vendor. Check my sig to see who I'm with now. I go where I get best support for what I need/want :)

I only question as I do, because not many people stand out to me personally on the forums, but you certainly do as someone biased very strongly against nvidia. And it's purely down to how strongly your bias seems to come across, making it difficult to take anything you say without wondering about some agenda.
 
** comment removed - Information concerning you user notes is no one else's business not does it have anything to to do with the thread in hand. **

eyetrip said:
Charlie demergian I think was the name of the guy I was thinking of.

And believe me, I suffer no emotional attachments to either gpu vendor. Check my sig to see who I'm with now. I go where I get best support for what I need/want :)

I only question as I do, because not many people stand out to me personally on the forums, but you certainly do as someone biased very strongly against nvidia. And it's purely down to how strongly your bias seems to come across, making it difficult to take anything you say without wondering about some agenda.
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I haven't said anything about Nvidia here though, nor do i normally. I just post articles for discussion and if they mention anything bad regarding Nvidia that = insults, name calling, baiting and my apparent hate of anything Nvidia. Pretty much what is going on here from several posters already with nothing to add, just to attack and bait me rather than address the topic at hand.
 
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Rroff said:
Which is a load of rubbish

http://www.nvidia.co.uk/content/PDF/kepler/NVIDIA-Kepler-GK110-Architecture-Whitepaper.pdf

http://docs.nvidia.com/gameworks/index.html

etc. etc. not to mention extensive sample and game development whitepapers, etc. nvidia do and if you license the gameworks libraries you get far more access to the source and documentation than is available publicly let alone if you make use of the nVidia's developer relations programs theres a whole extra level of support even to the point they will build development drivers for specific needs and rollout the features into the release drivers for a game release.
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Hahaha way to go for basing your ideas on nvidia websites. "These documentations" you point to is deceiving for people like us, they are just there to provide counter arguments nothing more. The developers don't get a peek behind the curtain that's all there is, "those documentations" don't give them any inkling as to what goes behind that curtain, but alludes people like you (non developer) that there is in fact sharing with developers which is far from the facts. You ve got developers saying it is one big black box, websites pointing to the same thing and how sinister it is for other manufacturers; but an nvidia website to paint a good picture is enough for you guys huh?
 
No, it doesn't Matt. You've posted a snippet of a couple of peoples opinions because they reside with your own. Yet you refuse to play anything GameWorks related anyway because of this incredibly blatant brand bias. So the thread has no credibility.

And in no way I am having ago, that is just the facts. The thread was only ever going to go one way. If say you'd felt you'd been effected personally by these black boxes surrounding Game Works library, and could possibly relate to poor performance within one of the relevant titles, then just maybe it would have some credibility.

Alas though, there isn't grounds for discussion. GameWorks is not accessible to AMD, we know that. But most people won't care, there are many users on AMD who have enjoyed Batman without crippling performance on the midrange, as well as other GW titles.

There isn't really a lot to discuss, and the brand baiting is possibly slightly more obvious than you let on to yourself. Just being honest here, no trolling / baiting / flaming, hand on heart.

We already knew GameWorks wasn't accessible to AMD, there wasn't any need to open a new thread to meet the same end.
 
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MjFrosty said:
No, it doesn't Matt. You've posted a snippet of a couple of peoples opinions because they reside with your own. Yet you refuse to play anything GameWorks related anyway because of this incredibly blatant brand bias. So the thread has no credibility.

And in no way I am having ago, that is just the facts. The thread was only ever going to go one way. If say you'd felt you'd been effected personally by these black boxes surrounding Game Works library, and could possibly relate to poor performance within one of the relevant titles, then just maybe it would have some credibility.

Alas though, there isn't grounds for discussion. GameWorks is not accessible to AMD, we know that. But most people won't care, there are many users on AMD who have enjoyed Batman without crippling performance on the midrange, as well as other GW titles.

There isn't really a lot to discuss, and the brand baiting is possibly slightly more obvious than you let on to yourself. Just being honest here, no trolling / baiting / flaming, hand on heart.

We already knew GameWorks wasn't accessible to AMD, there wasn't any need to open a new thread to meet the same end.
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Alas my friend, I do "try to" play those games and suffer performance, so is it enough ground for you to even discuss with me now? Do I met your criteria?

Get down your high horses.

There will be many games that is based on GW which will force bad performance for AMD users. But also there will be games based on GCN architecture, maybe equipped with Mantle support, however it won't affect Dx side of things for nvidia users and since nvidia have lots of great engineers working on their drivers as you guys said so many times now, they will come up with drivers required in no time. GW on the other hand will give AMD engineers no access at all for them to come up with drivers for US.

So I was playing nvidia endorsed titles, but with GW it is clear that nvidia don't want ME to play their games if I don't buy their merchandise, so it is not really up to me to even embargo the games they made possible. Like LtMatt I won't be playing those GW titles in future, not because I want to; but because I'm m made to.
 
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