Respected Game Developers Prefer GCN Programming Documentation Over GameWorks “black boxes”

[Martini1991]

But the HD7770 can handle BF4 1080P at medium-high settings @60fps but can't handle Batman @1200P with FXAA? Nah, its not right Martini.

You can't compare X game to Y game, different engines and all that.

Or we'd be questioning AC3's performance every day.

 

[Martini1991]

I think we need a new section called "Graph & Article Wars" where the likely suspects can go post all the lovely information that tends to side with their viewpoint.

Why do ANY of us care what Developers think about either brands back-end? We play the games and that is it. I do not buy and play a game because it is developed by a company/group of people who favour my brand of GPU.

Graphics Card has turned from discussion about GPUs with a firm focus on PLAYING GAMES into a place to try One-Up either of the brands. Now all of a sudden most of the new topics posted are what you would expect from the brands themselves - The sort of tripe PR and Marketing Spin that would go into a TV advertising.

The GPU buyers becoming the spin-masters? Not even being paid for it.

These sort of posts should be banned. There is absolutely no worth in "Discussing" rampant PR Twitter posts and nothing to be gained from said 'discussion'. It's flame bait, pure and simple veiled trolling.

+1.

 

[LtMatt]

You can't compare X game to Y game, different engines and all that.

Or we'd be questioning AC3's performance every day.

But look at the silly high fps Batman produces. Its not a demanding game when compared to BF4. Anyway we're getting off the point a bit here.

I think we need a new section called "Graph & Article Wars" where the likely suspects can go post all the lovely information that tends to side with their viewpoint.

Why do ANY of us care what Developers think about either brands back-end? We play the games and that is it. I do not buy and play a game because it is developed by a company/group of people who favour my brand of GPU.

Graphics Card has turned from discussion about GPUs with a firm focus on PLAYING GAMES into a place to try One-Up either of the brands. Now all of a sudden most of the new topics posted are what you would expect from the brands themselves - The sort of tripe PR and Marketing Spin that would go into a TV advertising.

The GPU buyers becoming the spin-masters? Not even being paid for it.

These sort of posts should be banned. There is absolutely no worth in "Discussing" rampant PR Twitter posts and nothing to be gained from said 'discussion'. It's flame bait, pure and simple veiled trolling.

People that are interested in this are entitled to discuss it. Some of us find it interesting. Those that do not, should stay out or ignore the thread as instructed by Admiral Huddy.

Another thread clean up.

If you don't like other peoples comments or opinions, then that's fine. There's no rules about you having to agree but don't start dishing out personal insults and inflammatory remarks because i won't tolerate this any longer. If you have nothing constructive to add to the debate, then try just ignoring them instead if you must.

A few of you are right on the brink, so tread carefully.

 

[Sin_Chase]

People that are interested in this are entitled to discuss it. Some of us find it interesting. Those that do not, should stay out or ignore the thread as instructed by Admiral Huddy.

That is my constructive input to the thread.

I believe a new section for these types of threads where those who are interested can easily find them and those who are not can easily ignore is warranted and would be worthwhile.

There would be less need to "Clean Up" threads and you would get all the discussion on the topic from like minded persons you wanted.

Day in and day out we get new threads like this pop up in GC, the same thing happens. It appears to me the tone of the posts in the general GC section comes across as flame baiting and, dare I say it, fanboism with a calculated intention of stirring things up. Whether that is your intention or not it certainly comes across that way. I believe a new section would certainly alleviate a lot of these issues, what better place to air that opinion than one of the threads which exhibits the evidence. It's in your interest to get your own sub-section, surely?

 

[Marine-RX179]

I think we need a new section called "Graph & Article Wars" where the likely suspects can go post all the lovely information that tends to side with their viewpoint.

Why do ANY of us care what Developers think about either brands back-end? We play the games and that is it. I do not buy and play a game because it is developed by a company/group of people who favour my brand of GPU.

Graphics Card has turned from discussion about GPUs with a firm focus on PLAYING GAMES into a place to try One-Up either of the brands. Now all of a sudden most of the new topics posted are what you would expect from the brands themselves - The sort of tripe PR and Marketing Spin that would go into a TV advertising.

The GPU buyers becoming the spin-masters? Not even being paid for it.

These sort of posts should be banned. There is absolutely no worth in "Discussing" rampant PR Twitter posts and nothing to be gained from said 'discussion'. It's flame bait, pure and simple veiled trolling.

Actually the discussion serves a very valid purpose for consideration...if AMD cards performance is really going to be hammered by that much in all future GameWorks title, then even AMD users might have to considering jump boat to get a Nvidia card instead if their preferred games fall under GameWorks. It's definitely something we all need to keep an eye on in the long run. The Batman Origin performance issue may or may not be just a one off or an anomaly, but there would be no excuse if all or majority future GameWorks title exhibit the same behavior.

If you got nothing constructive to add to the discussion or have no interest in this discussion, please just don't comment rather than trying to throw oil on fire and discredit people that actually wish to discuss about the subject. LtMatt certainly ain't trying to pretend he's not "red", but that doesn't mean the subject discussed in questions is invalid.

 

[David Bisset]

Hahaha way to go for basing your ideas on nvidia websites. "These documentations" you point to is deceiving for people like us, they are just there to provide counter arguments nothing more. The developers don't get a peek behind the curtain that's all there is, "those documentations" don't give them any inkling as to what goes behind that curtain, but alludes people like you (non developer) that there is in fact sharing with developers which is far from the facts. You ve got developers saying it is one big black box, websites pointing to the same thing and how sinister it is for other manufacturers; but an nvidia website to paint a good picture is enough for you guys huh?

Yeah, I thought this too - looking through that documentation it's exactly as described in the twitter feed. Knowing what parameters to pass to a function is not knowing what it does. Some calls may be much more expensive than others, or a certain parameter value can vastly change the expense, none of this information is visible.

I'd agree that as an end user I don't care so long as it works well - but it's still a shame that corporate secrecy is causing games to run less well than they could. They may run well enough as things are but that really isn't the point. It'll be adding to dev costs too, which means either adding to our costs or reducing the scope of new products, which impacts on us all.

Edit: I've yet to look through AMDs docs so can't comment on if they are better or not. The comments above are relating only to the theoretical relevance of good quality docs with clear information on what happens.

 

[Admiral Huddy]

People that are interested in this are entitled to discuss it. Some of us find it interesting. Those that do not, should stay out or ignore the thread as instructed by Admiral Huddy.

Opposing criticism is fine.. that's what forms the basis of a debate. My point earlier is i don't want to see any more baiting, inflammatory posting and personal insults.

 

[Rroff]

Hahaha way to go for basing your ideas on nvidia websites. "These documentations" you point to is deceiving for people like us, they are just there to provide counter arguments nothing more. The developers don't get a peek behind the curtain that's all there is, "those documentations" don't give them any inkling as to what goes behind that curtain, but alludes people like you (non developer) that there is in fact sharing with developers which is far from the facts. You ve got developers saying it is one big black box, websites pointing to the same thing and how sinister it is for other manufacturers; but an nvidia website to paint a good picture is enough for you guys huh?

What?

 

[Rroff]

Yeah, I thought this too - looking through that documentation it's exactly as described in the twitter feed. Knowing what parameters to pass to a function is not knowing what it does. Some calls may be much more expensive than others, or a certain parameter value can vastly change the expense, none of this information is visible.

I'd agree that as an end user I don't care so long as it works well - but it's still a shame that corporate secrecy is causing games to run less well than they could. They may run well enough as things are but that really isn't the point. It'll be adding to dev costs too, which means either adding to our costs or reducing the scope of new products, which impacts on us all.

Edit: I've yet to look through AMDs docs so can't comment on if they are better or not. The comments above are relating only to the theoretical relevance of good quality docs with clear information on what happens.

Regarding gameworks thats not really suprising and is on par for the course for any other 3rd party library just because nVidia is the author of them doesn't make them any different to things like enlighten, speedtree, etc. often if there is full source, etc. its only available to higher level licensees if at all.

Aslong as they are providing extended features rather than trying to replace basic functionality with a version that nVidia can control I don't see the issue with them (there is no issue with them other than people who don't understand and/or having their own agenda blowing it out of proportion).

EDIT: Regarding nVidia documentation in general I just quickly linked some public easy to find links to demonstrate they do have fairly good documentation - theres a lot more indepth stuff on their website alone if people want to go find it let alone whats available to developers which is beyond the scope of this thread to dissect while as I said before I don't have any real experience of developing specifically for AMD to compare which is better I do have some experience developing for nVidia and its certainly not poor documentation even if AMD's is better which I can't make a call on.