Respected Game Developers Prefer GCN Programming Documentation Over GameWorks “black boxes”

[Rangerjr1]

I just stay away from games based on cartoons/comic books that i watched/read when i was 7 just saying

 

[andybird123]

Alas my friend, I do "try to" play those games and suffer performance, so is it enough ground for you to even discuss with me now? Do I met your criteria?

Get down your high horses.

There will be many games that is based on GW which will force bad performance for AMD users. But also there will be games based on GCN architecture, maybe equipped with Mantle support, however it won't affect Dx side of things for nvidia users and since nvidia have lots of great engineers working on their drivers as you guys said so many times now, they will come up with drivers required in no time. GW on the other hand will give AMD engineers no access at all for them to come up with drivers for US.

So I was playing nvidia endorsed titles, but with GW it is clear that nvidia don't want ME to play their games if I don't buy their merchandise, so it is not really up to me to even embargo the games they made possible. Like LtMatt I won't be playing those GW titles in future, not because I want to; but because I'm m made to.

You know, you can turn off each and every Gameworks feature, it has also been proven that each gameworks feature causes no more performance hit on AMD than it does on Nvidia, so no, there is nothing preventing you, as an AMD user, from playing a Gameworks title

 

[Admiral Huddy]

Another thread clean up.

If you don't like other peoples comments or opinions, then that's fine. There's no rules about you having to agree but don't start dishing out personal insults and inflammatory remarks because i won't tolerate this any longer. If you have nothing constructive to add to the debate, then try just ignoring them instead if you must.

A few of you are right on the brink, so tread carefully.

 

[Rangerjr1]

lol ltmatt on the brink

 

[LtMatt]

Another thread clean up.

If you don't like other peoples comments or opinions, then that's fine. There's no rules about you having to agree but don't start dishing out personal insults and inflammatory remarks because i won't tolerate this any longer. If you have nothing constructive to add to the debate, then try just ignoring them instead if you must.

A few of you are right on the brink, so tread carefully.

Thank you Huddy and duly noted. Apologies for posting my infraction log.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Alas my friend, I do "try to" play those games and suffer performance, so is it enough ground for you to even discuss with me now? Do I met your criteria?

Get down your high horses.

There will be many games that is based on GW which will force bad performance for AMD users. But also there will be games based on GCN architecture, maybe equipped with Mantle support, however it won't affect Dx side of things for nvidia users and since nvidia have lots of great engineers working on their drivers as you guys said so many times now, they will come up with drivers required in no time. GW on the other hand will give AMD engineers no access at all for them to come up with drivers for US.

So I was playing nvidia endorsed titles, but with GW it is clear that nvidia don't want ME to play their games if I don't buy their merchandise, so it is not really up to me to even embargo the games they made possible. Like LtMatt I won't be playing those GW titles in future, not because I want to; but because I'm m made to.

In what way are you getting bad performance? Are you sure it's not just your system? Anyone on a 280X + should be able to run with most settings enabled in Batman.

AC4 on the other hand is just very taxing. Performance for me with 4XMSAA maxed out at 1440P, or even 2XMSAA for that matter is not really acceptable on a single 780 Ti.

No high horses here, just plain logic.

 

[Martini1991]

AC4's a game works title? Didn't know, either way it performs like crap, but that's because of the engine, AC3 performs like crap too.

When I played AC4 at launch, maxed out, it pegged one of my cores at 99%.

Only GW title I've played I believe is Arkham Origins, and no performance complaints.

What other GW titles are there?

 

[Silent_Scone]

AC4 performance is just bad on the whole, agreed. It is a GameWorks title yes. Has TXAA and PhysX support. Might be a few other bits in there.

Titanfall is also receiving GameWorks treatment. 4K support, TXAA and few other bits. I'd imagine particle PhysX, seeing as Respawn were having to almost apologise for the poor dated Havok build used in the game.

I don't think GameWorks could make Titanfall any less optimised than it already is, put it that way lol

 

[Marine-RX179]

In what way are you getting bad performance? Are you sure it's not just your system? Anyone on a 280X + should be able to run with most settings enabled in Batman..

What about the average Joes that got cards like HD7850 2GB? 290x beating Titan on 8xMSAA at 1920 res doesn't help those who got 7850 2GB and got slower performance than a GTX560Ti at 1920 res 0-4xAA settings on Batman Origin (recalling this from the benchmark which someone posted a while ago).

 

[tommybhoy]

What about the average Joes that got cards like HD7850 2GB? 290x beating Titan on 8xMSAA at 1920 res doesn't help those who got 7850 2GB and got slower performance than a GTX560Ti at 1920 res 0-4xAA settings on Batman Origin (recalling this from the benchmark which someone posted a while ago).

Good luck asking that Marine, between the various threads, I've asked that till I'm blue in the face, still waiting on a reply.

Ignorance is bliss, actual game devs with access don't know ****, yet oCuk's 'average Joe' that doesn't have the slightest clue knows best.

 

[~>Dg<~]

read johans comment just laughed when come here to see it confirmed as devs hate Nvidia

come on matt where the hell do you make the stuff up from

 

[andybird123]

The 7850/70 in question still averaged over 60fps, so not like it suddenly made the game unplayable

 

[Martini1991]

Good luck asking that Marine, between the various threads, I've asked that till I'm blue in the face, still waiting on a reply.

Ignorance is bliss, actual game devs with access don't know ****, yet oCuk's 'average Joe' that doesn't have the slightest clue knows best.

It's valid, but we can't quantify it's down to GW, because even with the lesser than Nvidia counter part performance, it's still well up from the none GW title of Arkham City.

 

[LtMatt]

read johans comment just laughed when come here to see it confirmed as devs hate Nvidia

come on matt where the hell do you make the stuff up from

Nothing to do with me dgee's. I have no influence (sadly ) on respected game devs. I just found it interesting to see, especially given the previous thread on the subject and the level of denial involved in that thread.

The 7850/70 in question still averaged over 60fps, so not like it suddenly made the game unplayable

What about those of us like me with a HD7770? FXAA absolutely kills performance on AMD cards for no reason. Still can't fathom how a 770 can beat a 290X or a 660 can beat a 7950 boost at one of the most commonly used resolutions. In no other game known to man will a 770 beat a 290X by 5fps at 1200P.

Spoiler

 

[Martini1991]

That's 1200p, not 1080p, and you'd just lower the settings.

And FXAA is crap.

 

[Marine-RX179]

The 7850/70 in question still averaged over 60fps, so not like it suddenly made the game unplayable

Eh...the 7850 only average at 55fps:

(Borrowed from Gregters's post:
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=26007486&postcount=800)
So minimum frame rate would be like what...30fps? Applying any MSAA would most likely drop the minimum frame rate down to below 25-30fps, so that seem pretty unplayable to me.

I am not going to point fingers on whether or not if GameWorks is responsible, but "something" is definitely crippling the performance of the AMD cards, and even strip the users of option to use MSAA if they want to maintain playable frame rate. Look at the HD6970/HD7850 comparing to the GTX560Ti being slower by such a big margin...remember, the HD6970 trade blows with the GTX570...being that much slower than a GTX560Ti simply make no sense.

I really lol at the it's not making it unplayable argument people keep using...try imagining a game which a 280x does 60fps and the GTX780 does 50fps, I suppose people shouldn't talk about it as well because it's playable and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the 280x being that much faster than the GTX780 right? Think anyone with any sense would be like "hang on...something ain't right here...".

 

[LtMatt]

That's 1200p, not 1080p, and you'd just lower the settings.

And FXAA is crap.

Thanks corrected my typo. It won't change the results though and thats the point. FXAA costs 1fps (if that) normally, we all know that. Any gpu can handle FXAA, typically.

 

[Martini1991]

1080p would change the results, not by much, but it'd be around 10%, so the 7770 now is doing 41 FPS.

The 7770 is frankly a low end GPU, that AMD's IGP's are getting close to (Well.... We'd be nigh on as close had AMD not derped them bandwidth wise) and in next revisions when they apply what they've done to the PS4, the 7770 will be giving off less performance than an IGP.


How much does performance change using low FXAA?

 

[LtMatt]

1080p would change the results, not by much, but it'd be around 10%, so the 7770 now is doing 41 FPS.

The 7770 is frankly a low end GPU, that AMD's IGP's are getting close to (Well.... We'd be nigh on as close had AMD not derped them bandwidth wise) and in next revisions when they apply what they've done to the PS4, the 7770 will be giving off less performance than an IGP.


How much does performance change using low FXAA?

But the HD7770 can handle BF4 1080P at medium-high settings @60fps but can't handle Batman @1200P with FXAA? Nah, its not right Martini.

 

[Sin_Chase]

I think we need a new section called "Graph & Article Wars" where the likely suspects can go post all the lovely information that tends to side with their viewpoint.

Why do ANY of us care what Developers think about either brands back-end? We play the games and that is it. I do not buy and play a game because it is developed by a company/group of people who favour my brand of GPU.

Graphics Card has turned from discussion about GPUs with a firm focus on PLAYING GAMES into a place to try One-Up either of the brands. Now all of a sudden most of the new topics posted are what you would expect from the brands themselves - The sort of tripe PR and Marketing Spin that would go into a TV advertising.

The GPU buyers becoming the spin-masters? Not even being paid for it.

These sort of posts should be banned. There is absolutely no worth in "Discussing" rampant PR Twitter posts and nothing to be gained from said 'discussion'. It's flame bait, pure and simple veiled trolling.