RIP Unreal Tournament

Shame, it was looking good. It is very much like a remake of the original. Including proper mod support which is something that is lacking in modern FPSs.
 
HaloUK said:
Unreal Tournament - this music ALWAYS comes to mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViGSHVGpjkw
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Nail on head here.
Highly atmospheric, but high energy dnb track with a huge rotating world battling it out to capture flags at either ends of a fortress in space!

The music really does make games imo. Unfortunately mainly games from ~1995 - 2005 used it well, UT, need for speed, wipeout series, ridge racer come to mind
 
Guest2 said:
Nail on head here.
Highly atmospheric, but high energy dnb track with a huge rotating world battling it out to capture flags at either ends of a fortress in space!

The music really does make games imo. Unfortunately mainly games from ~1995 - 2005 used it well, UT, need for speed, wipeout series, ridge racer come to mind
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Completely agree with you there

UT 99 music was superb. Got me playing it more and more
 
It was only a matter of time, twitch FPS games like Quake and UT are too difficult and honest for modern gamers. No luck, no randomness and the best man wins... every game. Games with that kind of ruleset will die out very quickly. People are deeply into the game types that are prone to randomness where skill is not the main factor.

Soon fighting games will follow, I'm surprised they still do as well as they do, considering its a 0 excuses genre where the better player always wins. I'd say it's because there is no alternative, but when somebody invents a sub genre of fighting games similar to the BR sub genre of shooters, the primary genre will be done. COD and BF are on borrowed time also.
 
UT99 is still the best anyway. Downloaded some modern renderers about a year ago and still load it up from time to time, then loading up DM_Morpheus and the Low-grav mod.

Great game.
 
Nasher said:
The music from Unreal is just as good. Same composers.
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One thing that kind of disappointed me in that era - Quake 2 great soundtrack, Unreal great soundtrack, Unreal Tournament iconic soundtrack that stayed with you long after you stopped playing (Mission Landing, Run and Foregone Destruction I think are permanently etched in my brain) - I still remember the music on Overlord playing over and over as it hit 4-5am on the day after I bought the game having played Assault non-stop for like 12 hours. Then came Quake 3 - amazing game but the music was so bland and forgettable.
 
I did wonder what was going on with the latest UT development that seemed to have been going on for several years, without ever getting around to googling it. The graphics certainly improved from UT99 to UT3, but ~19 years on I still enjoy firing up UT99 every now and again for its gameplay, Zeroping Instagib was my first faced paced online gaming experience and UT99 will always have a special place in my gaming heart.
 
Omaeka said:
It was only a matter of time, twitch FPS games like Quake and UT are too difficult and honest for modern gamers. No luck, no randomness and the best man wins... every game. Games with that kind of ruleset will die out very quickly. People are deeply into the game types that are prone to randomness where skill is not the main factor.

Soon fighting games will follow, I'm surprised they still do as well as they do, considering its a 0 excuses genre where the better player always wins. I'd say it's because there is no alternative, but when somebody invents a sub genre of fighting games similar to the BR sub genre of shooters, the primary genre will be done. COD and BF are on borrowed time also.
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Sadly there is quite a bit of RNG in Quake Champions with the way their netcode works.

I should really have a writeup ready for when this topic gets mentioned, so my apologies in advance if this reply feels disjointed or scatter brained in anyway... i am just tired. -_-

Here is a simplified explanation:
QC apparently uses buffered netcode and it has a 50-80ms or larger input buffer..

In simplified terms this means that the client sends it's input (key presses, mouse angles etc), the server puts the input into the buffer.

When the buffer is filled or has hit a time limit the server starts to perform physics and update player positions.

The buffer also delays viewing angles, which is why you see some people doing damage to you with their back turned to you shooting into the distance.

The reason why they buffer at all is because they can interpolate between frames easier and smooth out jittery players movement before sending it out.

Here is why it breaks:
Client Side Hit Detection:

QC uses client side hit detection for hitscan weapons and direct hits from projectiles and abilities.

Basically the client sends a packet saying you hit someone, the server then checks if the other person is alive/eligible to be hit and then applies the damage, knockback etc.

The reason why this is an issue is because how the clients predicted movement and how extrapolation affects things.

While the buffer gives everyone a delay on their movement.. it also causes a giant offset between how you and your shots are perceived by other clients.

As your damage is not dependent on the server syncing things together and is processed immedietly (it does not wait for the input buffer) you get situations were lagged players(and none lagged) will be able to jump into a room and start doing damage to you before the server has even started sending out player position updates, this is why some people kill you in half a second with lg, or where you have rails/rockets appearing out of thin air.

The extrapolation issue:

The buffer delay causes simulated positions to be pushed TOO FAR ahead, if someone takes 1 step toward a corner your client will simulate 4-8 steps before the server update comes in and corrects it, this will allow players to hit you in positions you were never really on. In this case you take a step toward a corner and stop behind cover, your position however keeps going on the enemies screen and gives him an opportunity to hit you before it gets corrected.

This is caused by the buffer but can happen even in games where no buffer is used,

In QL,CS/CSGO etc it causes shots to not register as the server position differed to much and hadn't been corrected yet (this is why high tickrate is needed to get the updates out faster, and is also why it doesn't happen on lan.. while in QC however it does).

The biggest difference here is that the issue in QL,CS etc is caused by bad connections, packet jitter,packet loss etc. In qc it's caused by how the netcode is designed and cannot be avoided.

Projectiles and buffered movement:

The reason why you feel everything is delayed, is because everything is delayed. :p

In QC's case the buffer and client side hit detection causes situations where you will walk out of the way of incoming projectile fire and still be hit by it despite having 10ping.

  1. QC predicts projectiles and uses that predicted projectiles position to determine if something hits or not.
  2. As the rocket positions are delayed/skewed they will ALWAYS be offset even further by the input buffer. This results in projectiles flying past you on your screen and then somehow hitting you anyway.
  3. As they are offset you can not dodge projectiles with any level of consistency as they will behave differently depending on the shooters framerate,latency and network conditions, as well as your own.
Why doesn't this happen in other quake titles?!:
  1. Input was processed the moment it reaches the server, there is no inherit delay from buffers etc.
  2. They did not use client side hit detection and relied on a method called backwards reconcilliation, as well as client side extrapolation which pretty much means that the client tries to compensate for HIS OWN latency by pushing opponents forward or backwards a bit on the client. (in q3,q4 case this is commonly known as timenudge)
This honestly really needs to be a bigger topic and people really have to understand just how bad this is.

Not only because of the issues above but also because there are other games that use a similar netcode that have implemented this SO MUCH BETTER and do not suffer from these problems (it's not an amazon issue -_-).

It also allows for hackers/cheaters as well as abusers to get away with a lot more than they should so on top of it all competitive integrity is at risk too.

It's just poor implementation across the board and needs to be fixed properly, just realize that right now it's just a string of bandaid's holding things together.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/QuakeChampions/comments/8urdb2/the_games_netcode_is_getting_better_but/
 
Strange, I post the above and get a sponsored Ad on Facebook minutes later -

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/studio?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Performance&utm_campaign=an*I_pr*UnrealStudio_ct*Perf_pl*Conversions_co*All&utm_id=6123880405073&utm_content=UnrealStudio4.21_Static_1080x1080_UnrealStudio-JointheFreeBetaToday_US-CA_EN_All&fbclid=IwAR26tU6gmh3tjwctxnHsqbB7new_7t0G3iW0JYmT1Knoh2IDOvLK_5due_w

Edit, just had a quick game and the shock rifle was as good as it always was. Is it possible to play 3440 x 1440 without the aspect ratio being messed up?

I ended up just playing 1600 x 1200 in OpenGL on a 34"screen
 
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Generally I was never a fan of arena MP shooters and it was UT which started the trend of releasing games with no story and pure pew.pew. at the time I was a bit sour after lovimg unreal . Then quake went the same way as well with Q3.
However there was something special about UT and I did enjoy it far more than other arena shooters (such as Q3)
 
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