Road Cycling

[Jono]

Advice needed, or wanted so I can ignore your sensible thoughts over my own stupid ones

Can someone who knows about stuff have a look at the following two specifications of (different) bikes:
https://www.westbrookcycles.co.uk/cannondale-synapse-carbon-disc-ultegra-di2-road-bike-2016-p288001

https://www.specialized.com/gb/gb/bikes/road/roubaix-sl4-expert-disc-udi2/106586

The Roubaix is £7-800 more than the Synapse. Both have Ultegra Di2 and discs.
The Roubaix is the Fact10 carbon whereas the non-Di2 Roubaix is Fact8.

I don't know if F10 is the same kind of thing as Cannondale's HiMod stuff, or is that more like S-works?

Anyway, what makes the Roubaix more expensive, and THAT much more expensive, rather than just the name "Specialized". I thought Cannondales were quite expensive (years ago) and you paid for the name.

I'm going to test the Synapse later this week and at the weekend for an extended test ride/few days. I've been on a 20ish mile ride on a Roubaix (non-Di2) and found it quite comfortable but I was knackered from a previous ride so didn't ride hard/far.

I don't know what to expect of the Synapse. Phrases like "buttery smooth" raise an eyebrow... and the Roubaix was like riding on flumps compared to my CAAD10 on which I can feel every little caterpillar pube I run over.

But what if I like it and fall in love with Di2?

 

[Saytan]

Ok cool. Thanks for the info on the Excellights Do you own a set yourself?

I only chose Miche as Wheelsmith recommends them as being damn good for the cost in their FAQ.

not at the mo, but a but a few mates run them and they're things of beauty

 

[One More Solo]

@Jono

I don't think you'd be disappointed with either bike so it comes down to fit and personal preference. I know that's not very helpful but you'd be hard pressed to say one bike is better than the other.

 

[Saytan]

SNIP

The cannondale has Mavic Aksiums. that's a sub £150 wheelset on a £3300 bike...

 

[Lethal`]

What wonderful weather this morning...

It's lovely down here. Went out wearing a softshell and soon regretted it as it's blue skies and sunny. Although driving up from Sussex this morning I wasn't expecting it as went through many a shower and random hailstorm!

I'm going to attempt the ride I failed to do on Friday this Saturday/Sunday. Got some tweaks to make now that I know some of the roads aren't all that nice.

The road surfaces around here as just absolutely shocking. Had to be careful where I was yesterday, as some bits has massive potholes at the side.

What's the route? I might be interested in joining if you like... certainly enjoyed some of the roads out your way a month or so ago when I did this route: https://www.strava.com/activities/515005815

 

[One More Solo]

The cannondale has Mavic Aksiums. that's a sub £150 wheelset on a £3300 bike...

I don't think the one on the Specialized is much to write home about either though, I think they assume if you're dropping £3-4k on a bike you have wheels to go with it.

 

[madindehead]

Roubaix vs Cannondale stuff

I think the £800 is literally the "brand tax". Sadly. But: I love my Tarmac and I know I'd buy a Roubaix in a heartbeat. The best thing is to try and get a test ride on both if you can, and see what you like.

Personally, I'd buy the Roubaix

 

[madindehead]

What's the route? I might be interested in joining if you like... certainly enjoyed some of the roads out your way a month or so ago when I did this route: https://www.strava.com/activities/515005815

Can't see that route sadly

I need to make some minor changes, so I'll post it later on Would be cool yeah. Nice to have someone join! I'm quite slow on climbs still, but on the flats and downhills I'm reasonably ok

not at the mo, but a but a few mates run them and they're things of beauty

Ah cool. Would you mind finding out where they bought them from/had wheels made with them? And what hubs they run perhaps? If it's not too much trouble of course

 

[Saytan]

I don't think the one on the Specialized is much to write home about either though, I think they assume if you're dropping £3-4k on a bike you have wheels to go with it.

cannondale's rim braked bikes seem to have much "better" wheels relatively at the price point, and that'd be the area where people tend to have a set of wheels already, I don't know anyone with a spare set of high end road disc wheels...

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a £300 wheelset on a bike at this price point

 

[Jono]

Yeah tis a problem. I love my Fulcrum Racing 3s. Perhaps it's all in my mind but the upgrade from Shimano RS10s was night and day. These things just roll and roll and roll (which is half the joy)... and they climb/accelerate so much better... no difference really once up to speed, I don't think, other than the rolling/good bearings.

Plus they're a fair bit lighter. Maybe the new tyres helped too?

But yeah, it's annoying to get crapola wheels on an expensive bike, especially since neither seem particularly good.
Mavic Ksyrium Pro have been recommended but that's a £650 upgrade, and that's 2x what my Fulcrums cost. I doubt they're 2x better? That's Racing Zero territory.

A standard Roubaix with mechanical ultegra would be £2k, which I could probably get some money off.
A mechanical Synapse is £2400. Not sure why the price difference there.

I'm assuming both have dire wheels, even worse than the ones one the Di2 versions.

So maybe I'd be best getting a Roubaix (as it's cheaper) and upgrading the wheels? But if that IS the best course of action... what wheels?

I have swiss stop blue pads on my 105 rim brakes, and the amount of braking power they didn't really have at the last 1/4 of a 25% descent was quite scary.... I don't know if disc brakes would be better in this instance, but my experience of MTB brakes (albeit with much bigger rotors (200/180mm) makes me think they probably would.

 

[Roady]

I guess PT users generally have to walk to and from their stops whereas drivers park as close as possible.

I fully expect this is it, also people who regularly catch a bus from 'the end of the road' are more likely to walk to the local shops 1/2 a mile away, whereas a car driver will 'pop in the car' as it's quicker. I bet 80%+ of bus commuters (who also own a car) will choose to walk 1/2 mile in fine weather, car drivers are probably more like 50%.

Anyway, what makes the Roubaix more expensive, and THAT much more expensive, rather than just the name "Specialized".

Zertz and other Specialized tech, like the Z seatpost... Although I'm expecting the Cannondale is a lighter frame?

I don't know what to expect of the Synapse. Phrases like "buttery smooth" raise an eyebrow... and the Roubaix was like riding on flumps compared to my CAAD10 on which I can feel every little caterpillar pube I run over.

You've done the best thing by riding both. I'm betting both will feel worlds apart from your CAAD10 as both are more endurance (with a bit of 'gravel bike' thrown in) whereas the CAAD is more of a race machine. Ideal scenario would be to ride both back to back on the same route... Quite hard to have that opportunity!

Was the Roubaix you rode carbon and disc? They're available as both alu/carbon and rim/disc.

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a £300 wheelset on a bike at this price point

True and quite disappointed in both to be honest...! Saying that my £900 (at the time) Defy had a wheelset worth about £80 (quality wise!), so general consensus of less than 10% of the total cost spent on the wheelset applies. In both instances!

I'm basically steering more and more towards a S/H carbon Roubaix 2014 and replacing groupset, brakes and wheels... Should get a better bike in the longer term for slightly less money! Although they do seem a bit like hens teeth...

 

[Lethal`]

Can't see that route sadly

I need to make some minor changes, so I'll post it later on Would be cool yeah. Nice to have someone join! I'm quite slow on climbs still, but on the flats and downhills I'm reasonably ok

Ah. Give it a go now, or follow me on strava and it should definitely work! Don't worry I'm not a super fast rider either - especially on hills! I should be free both days on the weekend - no particular plans yet.

 

[Jono]

I fully expect this is it, also people who regularly catch a bus from 'the end of the road' are more likely to walk to the local shops 1/2 a mile away, whereas a car driver will 'pop in the car' as it's quicker. I bet 80%+ of bus commuters (who also own a car) will choose to walk 1/2 mile in fine weather, car drivers are probably more like 50%.
Zertz and other Specialized tech, like the Z seatpost... Although I'm expecting the Cannondale is a lighter frame?

You've done the best thing by riding both. I'm betting both will feel worlds apart from your CAAD10 as both are more endurance (with a bit of 'gravel bike' thrown in) whereas the CAAD is more of a race machine. Ideal scenario would be to ride both back to back on the same route... Quite hard to have that opportunity!

Was the Roubaix you rode carbon and disc? They're available as both alu/carbon and rim/disc.
True and quite disappointed in both to be honest...! Saying that my £900 (at the time) Defy had a wheelset worth about £80 (quality wise!)

I'm basically steering more and more towards a S/H carbon Roubaix 2014 and replacing groupset, brakes and wheels... Should get a better bike in the longer term for slightly less money! Although they do seem a bit like hens teeth...

Yeah it was the black carbon version. Whatever the model is called. SL4 Comp Disc is the one.

I did really like it, comfort wise... compared to mine. But tired legs from the outset didn't let me use it to climb much. I gave up halfway up a decent hill
I, myself am at least 15kg overweight, possibly even 20. In fact if I get down to 72.5kg I think I'd be very very happy with myself.

I'm sure that would be a much better upgrade than wheels, tbh. Though having spent £300 on a set of wheels back in August which isn't that long ago... makes me a bit annoyed to have to upgrade wheels on a new bike that's way better (?) than my current one.

I don't need to change my bike, but I want to. And that's usually a good enough reason. Part of me is trying to justify that want because as I mentioned I'm not entirely comfortable on current bike - and if my hands are in the correct position on the hoods, then my back gets uncomfortable from being less upright than I'd like... and if I'm in a more comfortable upright position then
my elbows are either locked out (which I'm led to believe is wrong - should have a slight bend in them) or I can't reach the brakes as my hands are on the bend on the bars, rather than the hoods.

I've played around with the stem, I just don't think this bike is right for me, and never was. I just bought it because I wanted a road bike, and this one "fit me" in the shop when I sat on it more than anything else, and it was cheap enough for me to afford.

It's uncomfortable in the amount of vibration that translates to my buttockal region and through the front via the forks, but the main reason is I know i've been on it, no matter how long/short the ride was.
I think the vibration thing fatigues me somehow... and makes me less inclined to ride it more. I want to. I need to ride a bike more...

OR is all that just ********, and me trying to justify a new bike.

 

[Saytan]

Ah cool. Would you mind finding out where they bought them from/had wheels made with them? And what hubs they run perhaps? If it's not too much trouble of course

one on Royce, one on campag records.

 

[BennyC]

Yeah tis a problem. I love my Fulcrum Racing 3s. Perhaps it's all in my mind but the upgrade from Shimano RS10s was night and day. These things just roll and roll and roll (which is half the joy)... and they climb/accelerate so much better... no difference really once up to speed, I don't think, other than the rolling/good bearings.

Can confirm my FR3's roll endlessly too. The most notable difference for me was the speed of my descents and that fact I need not pedal

 

[Saytan]

I, myself am at least 15kg overweight, possibly even 20. In fact if I get down to 72.5kg I think I'd be very very happy with myself.

Ride up grades, don't buy upgrades

in all seriousness though, if you shed some weight you'll probably find your current bike a lot more comfortable - it's much easier to get into a racier fit when you have less middle

 

[Jono]

Hmmm maybe I should ride this one until the current year's bikes go on sale... by which time I'll hopefully have lost the weight... then decide what I've earned

 

[madindehead]

Did you like the ride of the Roubaix Jono? Was it as compliant as they claim it is?

 

[DanF]

Hmmm maybe I should ride this one until the current year's bikes go on sale... by which time I'll hopefully have lost the weight... then decide what I've earned

yeah it's a kinda good idea, was watching the prices of the synapse I bought last year and at it's lowest went from £2500 down to £2,000. But you'll miss it all summer

I got mine from pedal on, they have a deal where you get vouchers to buy some of their online stock. It's worth maybe £250~ depending on what you can get.

http://www.pedalon.co.uk/acatalog/cannondale-synapse-carbon-ultegra.html
http://www.pedalon.co.uk/acatalog/podium_points.php

Personally I don't think the HiMod of f10 carbon is worth it. The synapse himod is maybe 200g lighter and that's it, everything else is the same on them including geometry.

I'd recommend trying out a few different bikes though fairly close together, it's a lot of cash to spend unless you really know you'll like it. I love the synapse but you might hate it.

With disc wheels, there's just not that many different ones available for manufacturers to put on the bikes, so you end up with heavy stuff like the Aksium on a £2500 bike. I've got mine on my commuter now but hey are really heavy, 2kg.

 

[Jono]

I certainly felt it was... Take your run of the mill uk asphalt surface road. One that's been mashed up a bit so it's kinda half rough tar undersurface and half stony bits.

On my bike, I feel every little transition on/off the under bit. On the roubaix it was almost like riding on perfect new tarmac. Or at least riding on standard asphalt. On perfect tarmac it's like glass. And you do feel the potholes if you choose to not avoid them... but it takes the edge off them, a lot.

Will see how the Synapse compares on Thursday/at the weekend.