Road Cycling

Soldato
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I bought a Nike headband cheap on wiggle. Makes a big difference, obviously you look like an absolute bell but nobody can see you anyway! Catches a lot of the sweat from going in your eyes and dripping elsewhere. Got some sweatbands too, helps stop dripping from your hands while feeling like you are about to hit the nightclubs in the 1980's. :cool:
 
Soldato
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Awesome I'll check them out. Just did another Zwift ride on my lunch break. It feels so much harder on there than it does outside having a 'real' ride. I only did 12.5 miles in 40 minutes but I felt much harder worked out than I do for a 60 minute ride on the roads - is that normal?
 
Soldato
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Awesome I'll check them out. Just did another Zwift ride on my lunch break. It feels so much harder on there than it does outside having a 'real' ride. I only did 12.5 miles in 40 minutes but I felt much harder worked out than I do for a 60 minute ride on the roads - is that normal?

Not unless you did a lot more climbing in Zwift compared to an outdoor ride, no. On the flat and especially on populated routes, you should be flying along on Zwift compared to a solo outdoor ride.

Edit: Yeah, the heat stress will make your heart rate significantly higher indoors for the same power as outdoors due to lack of air movement. When I begin a new "turbo season" it typically takes me ~2-3 weeks to get similar hrm/power as outdoors for harder efforts (z3+), while drinking significantly more fluid indoors and having the fan(s) going full blast!
 
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Soldato
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I think it could be a factor of it being significantly warmer indoors and the fan I use not cooling me down enough and maybe just that when I go on a 'real' lunch ride I ride with someone else whereas on this I'm by myself and probably put in more of an effort?

My real lunch route is 23km with 213m of elevation gain in 59 minutes and my Zwift route yesterday was 17km with 194m of elevation gain in 43 minutes. I expect a lot of it is down to me going a bit harder inside than I would outside. If I had RGT it would be interesting to make the same route I cycle and see how it compares that way.

I'm having fun with it but it's certainly not a substitute for the real deal. I should probably rear my head in the indoor riding thread - but this thread is like a home away from home!
 
Soldato
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I personally definitely find indoor riding harder than outdoor. From discussions with friends, honestly I thought that was a given? For one thing, there's not really any coasting indoors as you grind to a halt very quickly :mad:

Having said that, speeds are often faster indoors, well, on flatter routes I guess. Outside around here is reasonably lumpy, indoor can be more consistent.
 
Soldato
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Have you done a SYSTM Ramp Test/Half Monty? I'd be interested in your thoughts on that, with the 20 minute 'Heart Rate Constrained Effort' after the ramp.

I decided to do this early as the nine hammers workout was nowhere near as hard as it is reported to be.

4DP results:
https://i.imgur.com/InYAJE7.png

Half monty results:
https://i.imgur.com/Rb3D4A2.png


Interesting, my Garmin watch detected a new FTP of 198w during the same test.

I found the heartrate constrained effort rather tedious, but easy enough to do. My power needed to hold it in range did need to vary a little bit. + or - 10w or so.
 
Soldato
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That's not far off then? I assume the 4DP was done a little while ago, so you would expect an increase? Have you done a regular ramp recently that would give a comparison?

I've got Chores scheduled for tomorrow

I failed quite bad on this one, the long extended near FTP were just too much later on.

I then did Defender today (IF 0.91) and couldn't do that either! :cry: I got more than half way in, dropped to 95% for part of the 3rd (of 4) and ended up down at 80% of the 4th. I'd rather do that and finish, than just cut it short. Not good, but I guess putting in the time and pushing hard will make me stronger. I still averaged 150 bpm which is one of the higher amounts for an hour long ride that I've had.

I found the heartrate constrained effort rather tedious, but easy enough to do.

It's odd, the first time I did one it was really quite hard. But the one I did last week, the constrained effort wasn't too bad, even though it wanted a higher HR, which took more Watts.

I've been finding recently it's my legs that are struggling, not so much the lungs. Next week the bike goes in for a service so I'll take a few days off, which might help.
 
Soldato
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That's not far off then? I assume the 4DP was done a little while ago, so you would expect an increase? Have you done a regular ramp recently that would give a comparison?



I failed quite bad on this one, the long extended near FTP were just too much later on.

I then did Defender today (IF 0.91) and couldn't do that either! :cry: I got more than half way in, dropped to 95% for part of the 3rd (of 4) and ended up down at 80% of the 4th. I'd rather do that and finish, than just cut it short. Not good, but I guess putting in the time and pushing hard will make me stronger. I still averaged 150 bpm which is one of the higher amounts for an hour long ride that I've had.



It's odd, the first time I did one it was really quite hard. But the one I did last week, the constrained effort wasn't too bad, even though it wanted a higher HR, which took more Watts.

I've been finding recently it's my legs that are struggling, not so much the lungs. Next week the bike goes in for a service so I'll take a few days off, which might help.


No, 4DP was done on Wednesday last week. I expected to do quite a bit better on the ramp test based on my Zwift results previously and I got further on the power output in the half monty too. I'm on the trial of Systm but think I will subscribe after the games Zwift are playing lately. Zwiftpower is also saying I am almost cat b now, despite never being able to hang on the the lead group until the end of the race.

It had me stay at a heartrate of 168-174 which is a fairly easy pace for me which is why I found it tedious and not challenging. I didn't make it to maxing out my heartrate on the ramp test, my legs hit their lactic acid limit on the last power ramp up. I reckon I could have held the previous power for a minute longer.
 
Soldato
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helps stop dripping from your hands while feeling like you are about to hit the nightclubs in the 1980's. :cool:
When you can have valid conversations about legwarmers then really there are very few barriers! ;)

I used to wear wrist sweatbands, Nike do some really wide ones which are good, but the elastic ages in them very fast. But I also found that my HR was much higher wearing them and I actually sweated more, then I read an article about uncovering wrists for cooling and how it's an easy way to regulate thermal temperature that some people (inc Cavendish?) are sensitive to... And trying it out it made a massive difference to me, especially when Zwifting. I'll regularly ride now with arm warmers on, before peeling them back to my forearms as I warm up (before then taking them off fully, or leaving them there as a sleeve). I do it riding outside too but only really in the summer.

The headband is actually a very good shout, will get one of those! Just need to find one that can fit my fat noggin
I've a 61/62cm head (regularly wearing L or XL helmets) and find most stretch far enough - including the Halo ones (below).

I can recommend Halo headbands. I have two, the second one is adjustable in size.

The Zwift ones are Halo ones. £23 for a pack of 2, then the sweat strip on one of mine started to peel after a few uses, ticketed support and had a new set despatched within 24h without even supplying any 'evidence' - crazy good service! Also headbands now technically just over a fiver each, just one without a Sweatblock strip.... :D

I also have a bunch of Sportful and Castelli ones. Used to be £3/4 each but now they're like £12-15 if you can find them! #Zwifttax

Awesome I'll check them out. Just did another Zwift ride on my lunch break. It feels so much harder on there than it does outside having a 'real' ride. I only did 12.5 miles in 40 minutes but I felt much harder worked out than I do for a 60 minute ride on the roads - is that normal?
Yes. No coasting on Zwift so really quite different to outside. Constant gradient means near constant power!

I'm having fun with it but it's certainly not a substitute for the real deal.
Totally agree and for someone who has done 75% or more of my riding on Zwift the last 3 years... Don't treat it as a substitute!

Use it as another avenue of riding, for me that's quite key - without the fitness from Zwift I'd enjoy the outside riding less as I'd have less power and less 'fun' attacking the stuff I like (hills). The only real 'competition' I do is racing on Zwift, outside I'm all about the ride/views/challenges/social. Although I do a bunch of 'social' type riding on Zwift these days too... But being involved in various inter-club teams doing different regular events have made a bunch of friendships through it too. Then the whole thing went full circle late last year - my outside club started doing social Zwift rides and have been dragging more of them online!

I decided to do this early as the nine hammers workout was nowhere near as hard as it is reported to be.

4DP results:
https://i.imgur.com/InYAJE7.png

Half monty results:
https://i.imgur.com/Rb3D4A2.png
Which platform are they from? Sufferfest?

I'm on the trial of Systm but think I will subscribe after the games Zwift are playing lately. Zwiftpower is also saying I am almost cat b now, despite never being able to hang on the the lead group until the end of the race.
Games?

The Zwiftpower 'recommended' cat is based on your best three 20 minute results over the last 90 days from Events/Races with results on there.

I'm a C 'almost' B too. I've been the same for a while as I've got generally a little stronger, while also slightly increasing my weight has kept me in C. Sandbagging slightly, but when competing in things like ZRL I'm not winning races... I'll likely move up to B this summer if I keep the Zwift intensity (power) while then dropping some weight through more outside riding. I've always fluxuated between 75-78kg in summer/winter anyway, or at least that's what I've told myself - so generally kept my Zwift weight at 77-78kg. but the last 12/24 months I've barely been below that and quite frequently above that so have increased it slightly (79kg). I could realistically go up-to 80kg right now as I'm carrying a bit of timber - but it has also brought some power gains with it too. I'm more frequently around 3.2w/kg for 20 minutes now, some over. I've just been lucky the races I do being TTT's the averages come out below and have kept me in C (so far).

Like last nights Leith hill - took over a minute off my PR, racing it with 5 B's and an A. That is a 3.35w/kg effort for me for 16.5 minutes, could possibly sustain it for 20 minutes. Barely made it but hung in there, yet the descent afterwards and generally sitting in most of the ride my overall average only comes out at 3.0. The rest of the team being 3.3-3.6!

I've done a lot of TTT's and even being one of the stronger riders on the road (leading C teams and doing double turns while leading), my averages are usually middle of the group. I've just become incredibly good about resting when I can and really easing in the draft when being towed in the group. Less experience I guess riders are not easing as much!?
 
Soldato
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Yes. No coasting on Zwift so really quite different to outside. Constant gradient means near constant power!
It is much harder than outdoors. Going to do an outdoor 60k tomorrow then a rest day and I'm going to then try the 4 week FTP builder. I'm at 2.2w/kg at the moment so I should be able to get a lot of free newbie gains.

Totally agree and for someone who has done 75% or more of my riding on Zwift the last 3 years... Don't treat it as a substitute!
Being out in the world and seeing new things will always trump indoor for me but seeing how easy it is to quickly just jump on the turbo and do some exercise - almost no room to make excuses as it's right by me!

Use it as another avenue of riding, for me that's quite key - without the fitness from Zwift I'd enjoy the outside riding less as I'd have less power and less 'fun' attacking the stuff I like (hills). The only real 'competition' I do is racing on Zwift, outside I'm all about the ride/views/challenges/social. Although I do a bunch of 'social' type riding on Zwift these days too... But being involved in various inter-club teams doing different regular events have made a bunch of friendships through it too. Then the whole thing went full circle late last year - my outside club started doing social Zwift rides and have been dragging more of them online!

I'm already nagging my friends to try and get on Zwift. Not having much luck at the moment! I'm persistent though so I'll keep nagging them as I imagine it's good fun and motivating doing it in a group
 
Soldato
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Which platform are they from? Sufferfest?

Games?

The Zwiftpower 'recommended' cat is based on your best three 20 minute results over the last 90 days from Events/Races with results on there.

Wahoo SYSTM now, but was Sufferfest. I am rather enjoying the training from it and suits me better then races as I can get on it straight after work and just do the suggested workout.

They banned the weight doping whistle-blower this week. But I also think they could have done a much better job by automatic ranking players with placement results in mind, rather then the auto-cat by w/kg. It will mean I can never participate in a close matched city race with my weight being 62KG.
 

fez

fez

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Being out in the world and seeing new things will always trump indoor for me but seeing how easy it is to quickly just jump on the turbo and do some exercise - almost no room to make excuses as it's right by me!

Exactly. In the depths of winter when the weather is grim Zwift will be my only riding. Come the summer though, I would 100% rather be outside in the sun in our beautiful countryside.
 
Soldato
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Awesome I'll check them out. Just did another Zwift ride on my lunch break. It feels so much harder on there than it does outside having a 'real' ride. I only did 12.5 miles in 40 minutes but I felt much harder worked out than I do for a 60 minute ride on the roads - is that normal?

Specific to free rides on zwift, providing you aren't forcing yourself unnaturally and don't have your trainer at 100% (that can scale all gradients) with the same gearing as your road bike, if the route you ride outside is compared to one on zwift with similar types of elevation gain and total elevation and the average watts similar, you're likely to find your time spent in Z4+ is a lot less on zwift compared to on road. If you're keeping yourself reasonably cool indoors, road will be more taxing as a result. It often doesn't feel like it though as the power required on zwift is more constant/linear and people including myself often ride courses that have far greater elevation gains than they would ride outdoors, which in turn compensates for the trainer difficulty and slacker gearing.
 
Soldato
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I definitely feel the heat was part of the issue. Was literally dripping and I don't remember feeling like that in the summer!

got a headwind on the way so I'm hoping that makes things a bit more comfortable
 
Soldato
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Had another 75 mile ride this morning (only ever done 6 and 2 of those have been in the last two weeks!) but this one was a little weird. I stopped at a friends (who had ridden with us) with 11 miles to go. We sat and chatted for almost an hour, I had a Luchos Dolitto energy block but quite early after arriving. When I set off, I felt very odd... not like a bonk... but almost light headed... almost like an outer body experience. Rather wobbly, my legs just kept turning but I almost couldn't feel anything... After about 5 miles, so 6 to go, I stopped and had my second energy block and I started to feel more normal, just very tired now. The ride had been a 2 cake stop ride, so I'd taken on board reasonable fuel. Never had that feeling before, was quite un-nerving tbh.
 
Soldato
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Lovely day today.

Pulled the winter bike out last night to find back tyre flat :( it was an old tyre so going to junk it. Absolute nightmare getting it on/off the rim, used a new (10 year old) tube to find it was duff.

I’ll have to buy some new 25s (I have 28s on but they are too tight to the rim and to the mudguards really). I was going to get Corsa Controls but I’m not paying £52 a tyre. GP5000 can get a pair for £70…

Took the summer bike today instead, good times, super head wind or tail wind so was absolutely flying in one direction!
 
Soldato
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Wahoo SYSTM now, but was Sufferfest. I am rather enjoying the training from it and suits me better then races as I can get on it straight after work and just do the suggested workout.

They banned the weight doping whistle-blower this week. But I also think they could have done a much better job by automatic ranking players with placement results in mind, rather then the auto-cat by w/kg. It will mean I can never participate in a close matched city race with my weight being 62KG.
Might be quite interested in trying out SYSTM if anyone ever spots a free month/intro deal. I always loved traditional Sufferfest and then rode during their beta when they first did the app. Although I love Zwift am starting to get into RGT now and can see the merits...

Yup, what a fiasco with Luciano! But Zwift thankfully backtracked and seem to have put things right. But lots of riders confidences have been knocked... They are now offering up a 'bug bounty' to anyone who reports anything - better than shadowbanning them for 30 days lol

But do think you could be talking cross-purpose and getting yourself confused with the mention of auto-cat and ranking. Zwiftpower 'recommended' Cat is purely based on your race results reported on Zwiftpower. It is technically owned & run by Zwift, but it used to be a separate entity exterior to Zwift (and still is). It was run by a group of admins/teams/developers who are now not involved. Race admins have tools to 'filter' results and make them 'official' after races, rather than just the on-screen 'in game' (which is unfiltered). Zwift 'own' Zwiftpower and it's still running, the engine of it hasn't changed for several years, but there are parts of it broken (segments, primes etc) which will never be fixed and at some point Zwift will just pull the plug on it. What I'm trying to say is... The 'recommended' Cat on there, is nothing more than that. Although you can enter any Cat to race, the 'result' shown on Zwiftpower will likely be very different to the result shown on Zwift itself, or on WTRL. Zwiftpower also have a rider 'ranking' judged from results...

WTRL again, separate entity, with Cat enforcement. They access the Zwift API the same way that Zwiftpower does, but then do their own calculations and results from the data. Some of their segments and stuff are different to those shown on Zwift and in Zwiftpower ('win' a sprint in game, you might not win it in a WTRL event!). They are still run by the same team who started out, but are now Zwift owned and supported. They're more like 'contracted' and employed by Zwift to run the Chase/ZRL/WTRL-TTT and other stuff that's traditionally pushed racing 'forwards' before Zwift themselves became more serious about it (then threw money at them). The rider 'data' they hold may not exactly match what is against rider records on Zwiftpower, but should be pretty close. The way their events work are heavily administrated with private event links (Racepasses) to assign riders to specific teams, events and pens to try and eliminate cheating/sandbagging etc.

Zwift themselves have operated several 'anti-sandbagging' events (FutureWorks). Tweaking settings and rules to try and categorise riders better. Different teams and admins (like above) have also done their own in their own series (TFC and FRR being the most notable, but both based on Zwiftpower data) to try and make racing more fair and competitive. The last update from Zwift also introduced their own 'auto-cat' tools, which are based on a combination of things. I think nearly all of the others are based solely on riders FTP's, some of them with race results, but the new Zwift one takes FTP as well as w/kg over 20 mins alongside MAP to split and categorise riders more accurately. It's still in testing so not available to anyone running events, but it will be there soon - very likely in a WTRL event (Case then ZRL).

Had another 75 mile ride this morning (only ever done 6 and 2 of those have been in the last two weeks!) but this one was a little weird. I stopped at a friends (who had ridden with us) with 11 miles to go. We sat and chatted for almost an hour, I had a Luchos Dolitto energy block but quite early after arriving. When I set off, I felt very odd... not like a bonk... but almost light headed... almost like an outer body experience. Rather wobbly, my legs just kept turning but I almost couldn't feel anything... After about 5 miles, so 6 to go, I stopped and had my second energy block and I started to feel more normal, just very tired now. The ride had been a 2 cake stop ride, so I'd taken on board reasonable fuel. Never had that feeling before, was quite un-nerving tbh.
Sounds just like a bonk, just an extended one over the period you where stopped that didn't really 'hit home' until you went to move again. The light headed/wobbly/disassociation sounds more like a blood sugar related issue. The energy block was just consumed and any energy boost generally had eased off before you rode. It topped your depleted system/sugars up, but they where still really low when you resumed your ride. Also that long a stop, I don't know the sciences of it, but you body had entered 'recovery mode' and was using it's energy for that, taking it a while to switch back over to riding (along with the extra food which helped it).

Lovely day today.
Yup, beautiful day here, although a bit cold. Actually made it back out with the club, outside! Although typical the 'return ride' I choose we end up going 10+ miles further, an hour longer and a much hillier route than I needed/planned/intended. Was pretty gassed by the end and eating my last food nearly 20 hours before I got home made the return a 'bit of a slog'... But good to know I had the fitness to just spin it and 'get me home' without bonking. :cry::rolleyes:

https://www.strava.com/activities/6740582175

I should have known when the 13 starting riders, 6 of them choose a 'shorter & easier' route with a guy who always does a shorter ride from half way...! Later the Ride Leader (Linda) setting the rest of us a 'Challenge' when we got to Colwall - to do the whole 'Wyche' climb, while she turned off half way, then we'd meet back up. Of course we all joke about 'not being that stupid' - then all rode it anyway! :rolleyes:

Then someone punctured on the way back down... Twice! :eek: :rolleyes:
 
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Soldato
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Might be quite interested in trying out SYSTM if anyone ever spots a free month/intro deal. I always loved traditional Sufferfest and then rode during their beta when they first did the app. Although I love Zwift am starting to get into RGT now and can see the merits...

Yup, what a fiasco with Luciano! But Zwift thankfully backtracked and seem to have put things right. But lots of riders confidences have been knocked... They are now offering up a 'bug bounty' to anyone who reports anything - better than shadowbanning them for 30 days lol

But do think you could be talking cross-purpose and getting yourself confused with the mention of auto-cat and ranking. Zwiftpower 'recommended' Cat is purely based on your race results reported on Zwiftpower. It is technically owned & run by Zwift, but it used to be a separate entity exterior to Zwift (and still is). It was run by a group of admins/teams/developers who are now not involved. Race admins have tools to 'filter' results and make them 'official' after races, rather than just the on-screen 'in game' (which is unfiltered). Zwift 'own' Zwiftpower and it's still running, the engine of it hasn't changed for several years, but there are parts of it broken (segments, primes etc) which will never be fixed and at some point Zwift will just pull the plug on it. What I'm trying to say is... The 'recommended' Cat on there, is nothing more than that. Although you can enter any Cat to race, the 'result' shown on Zwiftpower will likely be very different to the result shown on Zwift itself, or on WTRL. Zwiftpower also have a rider 'ranking' judged from results...

I'm sure there is no right answer with Zwift racing. I'm sure we can all be in agreement that we want to participate in challenging races with others of close performance, but with only 4 categories to place people in the difference in abilities from bottom to top of the class is too great and sitting in a race on your own isn't fun, nor is it spurring me on to perform better. Which is why I purchased a year of Systm when the trial finished. Anyone can sign up to 2 weeks without any restrictions, no need for credit card details either, which is what tempted me to give it a go. Hopefully between indoor training and the start of the spring/summer season outdoors I can return to Zwift in cat B as I haven't been this strong at the start of the year before (although the proof will be when I get outside next month!)
 
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